Returning to work in real life

[Sandra15]

We are having a Zoom call about returning to work. Regardless of the need to feel safe, a member of staff has said that she can find quiet places to work at home, and she is stressed and anxious about people coming in and out of the office and will find it distracting.

What? That was normal 18 months ago. AIBU to think this is snowflake-ish?

I find all these accusations of “but they were fine before??!” Really weird. Do people say this in real life to people with mental health issues? Do you live in the dark ages and never move forward with better ways of doing things because “the old way is fine”?

Wfh has some huge advantages.

Commuting time is often just wasted time. Wfh has meant 40 hours a month of my life I get back. Many employers see that employees are well rested, less torn between work and family commitments, and often happier, and know that happy employees are more productive and easier to retain. So these employers are happy to move to a hybrid model long term, and I don't think its unreasonable for people express opinions and hope that they can compromise with their employer on a hybrid model.

Everyone I know has been offered at least 2 or 3 days from home & a couple in the office.

Good employers will work with staff to at least try to find a mutually beneficial option.

However nobody can complain about being asked to do the job they signed up for at the place they agreed to work in.

If the office say you're back in full time from Monday, then that's it - set the alarm or hand in your notice.

@Oblomov21

I agree Op. Her claims aren't valid. This never bothered her before for the last 25 years, but is now an issue since covid?

She might just feel more able to express that opinion now. I was always very embarrassed at how stressed out I got at some aspects of being in an office because it seemed utterly ridiculous. I feel I could now because the pandemic has got people talking about this openly. It has been quite a revelation to find that things I thought were deeply weird about myself are relatively normal! Before that, it took me a few years to even work out I had a problem with office working. Or certain aspects of it. Some environments are better than others, but the problem is you have very little control over your environment in an office. The stress crept up on me - certain things went from nothing to irritating to unpleasant to very upsetting as they recurred over a period of years.

@Shirleyphallus - it is one of the frustrating aspects of MH issues. You’re embarrassed or too concerned about possible repercussions to say anything so you don’t until it comes to a head. And then you are disbelieved because you were supposedly fine before.

“Just find another job” is frustrating too. I worked hard to get into my profession, and until quite recently my options were to give it up or continue working in a way that regularly causes me stress. It’s not much of a choice.

[quote AntiWorkBrigade]@Shirleyphallus - it is one of the frustrating aspects of MH issues. You’re embarrassed or too concerned about possible repercussions to say anything so you don’t until it comes to a head. And then you are disbelieved because you were supposedly fine before.

“Just find another job” is frustrating too. I worked hard to get into my profession, and until quite recently my options were to give it up or continue working in a way that regularly causes me stress. It’s not much of a choice.[/quote]
100% agree

Funnily enough those who are too scared to come to the office are quite happy to go out drinking in pubs and post the photos on social media

Ok

I'm looking forward to getting back into the office. I'm the first one back in my team and everyone was saying won't I hate it being on my own? I'm on my own at home all day so makes no difference. I want my pre-covid routine back. It's great to know I can work at home adhoc moving forward if I need to but I'm happy to be in the office.

Going to take a while to adjust my body clock though as I'm use to a good 8 hours sleep every night whereas going to the office means getting up an hour earlier.

For many people there are massive advantages to working from home. The op has already listed some of the main ones. No commute means longer in bed or just more chill time in pyjamas before starting work. It is great to throw a wash load in, empty the dishwasher ext in breaks or to choose to work earlier/later than office hours. The practicalities can really help with work/life balance. No getting home in the dark to do all the above household jobs. Sticking a meal in the oven ready to eat as soon as that computer is switched off. Maybe easier to get kids to school/nursery. No wonder many people don't fancy the endless grind of full time work with commute and household/childcare going into the late evening.

Others might not want to go back because of genuine anxiety. On the other hand some might have felt claustrophobic stuck in the house 24 seven and can't wait to get back. All valid.

But...as the op has observed, it's down to individual employers now nd the bottom line is none of us have much choice either way. The job market, especially since Covid, means that if we don't like the terms our employers offer, or which we agreed to before Covid, there are plenty of others who will be happy to take our jobs. Not great but them's the breaks. It will be interesting to see which way employers will jump. There are advantages in homeworking for them too ...like not having to pay for expensive office space, heating ext. Maybe some will offer choices.

Its a weird thing to me. Because only a year ago people were oh so concerned about the impact the pandemic and lock downs would have on people's mental health.

Bring back the 'be kind' and talk about how things needed to change and how this may push mental health issues to the forefront.

Now, 12 months later, anyone mentions they feel anxious and it's 'snowflake' and 'get back to work' (pretty people who say that don't understand wfh) and 'well if you don't like leave your job', 'it will serve you right if your job goes abroad....think on that' and 'you won't want to be at home when you employer reduces your wage because they will'.

The last one based on the presumption that we all London weighting in our wages. These comments are usually made by people who have mo clue about what they are talking about.

As though there's something wrong for wanting better working conditions for yourself. Of course not all jobs can accommodate this long term. For many reasons. But many can (& will). And, no ot doesn't suit everyone. But again, why can't people express their own preferences, just because someone else wants to go back?

The resentment towards people working from home, is odd. I have done hybrid for years as have many colleagues. Our teams are international. Progression, training, the social side has never been issue.

But people never levelled this amount of annoyance at those working from home, before the pandemic. So I don't get why now.

People are being willfully obtuse if you can't see why people might want to go to pubs etc but not go to the office.

This article is very interesting- www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/work-from-home-benefits/619597/

The bit that stuck out to me was "When you hire someone, you’re (supposedly) hiring them to do a job in exchange for money. But the anti-remote crowd seems to believe that the responsibility of a 9-to-5 employee isn’t simply the work but the appearance, optics, and ceremony of the work."

I wouldn't say it's snowflakish as such. The majority of people will never have tried WFH before covid, and as such didn't realise just how much better it would be for them as individuals. My mum for example has to travel 3 hours in total per day, and WFH has removed that, plus has made her and her team more productive - so they've been told they can WFH full time and just go in for a monthly meeting.

Of course people will be upset when this work situation is changed, when it suited them so well.

The annoying part is people saying they have anxiety or they say that it's not safe when the reality is a fair few just prefer to work from home and don't want to go back.

I understand that but at least be honest about it.

It's weird that some people think WFH is easy or a way of getting out of doing actual work.
I've WFH for nearly 18 months now and apart from the first few weeks when we were setting everything up (making everything up ) I have without doubt worked more hours and been more productive than before WFH.

If the office say you're back in full time from Monday, then that's it - set the alarm or hand in your notice.

Seeing a lot of this "do what you company says or else, end of" rhetoric but it's not as simple as that.

Plenty of star performers who companies desperately want to retain will choose to hand in their notice, if they're given that ultimatum. If companies want to keep and attract the best talent, it's bosses who will have to suck it up and accept that allowing a hybrid model or even full WFH will be necessary. That was the case even before the pandemic - the most progressive companies knew that flexible working schedules were vital to building the best and happiest workforce.

Many people I know have been essentially able to dictate to their companies what they want, because they know they hold that bargaining power. When I got a new job this year I ensured that WFH full time was absolutely baked into my contract.

And even for those who aren't necessarily the star employees or who do more "replaceable" jobs - well, I suggest you do some reading on the history of unionising and agitating for better working conditions. That's why we have the cushy offices some people enjoy so much, or health and safety regulations in potentially dangerous jobs.

Employees pushing for a working environment that they know enables them to do better work and have more quality of life is just the latest iteration of this.

No empathy or human kindness in the OP, just silly and cruel 'buzzwords.'

I really hope this experience will change the way we work, we can work from home, we can manage workload and be flexible in the hours we work. In my job I don't have to be at work 9-5, as long as I do my job I don't need to be online at a specific time unless there's a meeting of course. It's sad to go back to more structured office environment when we have proven to be able to work flexibly with better work/life balance. Personal interaction is important of course, so the plan is to work from home 2-3 times a week and 2-3 times in the office with flexible hours.

@gannett

If the office say you're back in full time from Monday, then that's it - set the alarm or hand in your notice.

Seeing a lot of this "do what you company says or else, end of" rhetoric but it's not as simple as that.

Plenty of star performers who companies desperately want to retain will choose to hand in their notice, if they're given that ultimatum. If companies want to keep and attract the best talent, it's bosses who will have to suck it up and accept that allowing a hybrid model or even full WFH will be necessary. That was the case even before the pandemic - the most progressive companies knew that flexible working schedules were vital to building the best and happiest workforce.

Many people I know have been essentially able to dictate to their companies what they want, because they know they hold that bargaining power. When I got a new job this year I ensured that WFH full time was absolutely baked into my contract.

And even for those who aren't necessarily the star employees or who do more "replaceable" jobs - well, I suggest you do some reading on the history of unionising and agitating for better working conditions. That's why we have the cushy offices some people enjoy so much, or health and safety regulations in potentially dangerous jobs.

Employees pushing for a working environment that they know enables them to do better work and have more quality of life is just the latest iteration of this.

This is so very true.

In our industry guaranteeing hybrid or wfh is attracting people from competitors who are telling people they will go back full time eventually. My company pays slightly above average to attract 'star performers'. Those of us the company can't afford to lose get given shares after 2 years. Offering hybrid working is a drop in ocean compared to other things we are willing to do to attract the right people.

Alot of good employers have realised that this model may be the extra push people needed to leave a job and come to them. So offering it.

At some point, if this happens in alot, the ones who are making everyone go back full time will either need to accept good people will leave or change their model too.

No one knows how this will play out really. In theory it could go either way.

But if people want better working conditions, they will go where the better conditions are. At which point they are influencing policy and influencing decisions on how people will work.

Yabu. Maybe she did not realise how distracting and stressful the noisy office was for her until she had the option to WFH.

This could also be a sign of undiagnosed autism or sensory processing issues.

My desk "in real life" is close to the printer, main walkway, and open plan kitchen. For more than three years prior to lockdown I was asking to be moved to a quieter desk, have screening, or have "quiet pods" where I could work for short times, none of which I got. I was forbidden to wear noise-cancelling headphones "on health ad safety grounds", and was told "If you find the noise distracting, listen to the radio or something" WTF? After six months of conversations, a couple of people were sent from out head office to measure noise levels, but they came on the morning of a colleague's funeral, when over half the office was out.

It's taken a pandemic for me to be able to have a workspace where I can work happily. I'm not looking forward to going back into the office.

OP might say "It's only been 18 months" but probably doesn't know if her colleague has been raising issues for some time before this.

Many don’t have a choice.

And if the standard of customer service I’ve received over the phone recently is reflective of home working, people definitely need to get back to the office.

I know that on MN everyone is adamant they are just as productive, if not more productive WFH but IRL I have friends who have openly admitted that they've had a very easy ride for the last 18 months. They talk about how they've been "keeping an eye on their emails" whilst spending most of their working day decorating, gardening, watching box-sets and generally having a lovely time. They joke about volunteering to do lots of online training so their manager thinks they're really keen and then they turn their mics and cameras off and spend the training day doing as they please, occasionally chipping in if needed. Unsurprisingly, they don't want this to stop and are now finding every excuse under the sun as to why they can't go back to the office. One has started saying she doesn't feel safe, despite having been meeting people in groups since before it was allowed and feeling safe enough to go to pubs, theme parks and other attractions. I hate the term "snowflake" but I can see where OP is coming from. Yes, some people will have genuine anxieties about returning to the office and they deserve to be heard and supported. But let's not pretend that there aren't people out there who are using covid as an excuse for their own selfish reasons.

@washimal I get what you are saying. But in the examples you have given the employer has a much bigger issue that they do not have a system in place to measure performance and output.

Even when we were in the office, there were those who spent lots of time skiving on the internet or chatting with colleagues. I suspect those are the same people taking advantage of WFH. Sending people back to the office will not address the issue of poor management.

@Washimal - the example you have given is off poor management. It doesn’t mean home working isn’t beneficial to the employer and employee. We’ve had a global hybrid working model for years - everyone has benefitted and it is continuing.

@Washimal

I know that on MN everyone is adamant they are just as productive, if not more productive WFH but IRL I have friends who have openly admitted that they've had a very easy ride for the last 18 months. They talk about how they've been "keeping an eye on their emails" whilst spending most of their working day decorating, gardening, watching box-sets and generally having a lovely time. They joke about volunteering to do lots of online training so their manager thinks they're really keen and then they turn their mics and cameras off and spend the training day doing as they please, occasionally chipping in if needed. Unsurprisingly, they don't want this to stop and are now finding every excuse under the sun as to why they can't go back to the office. One has started saying she doesn't feel safe, despite having been meeting people in groups since before it was allowed and feeling safe enough to go to pubs, theme parks and other attractions. I hate the term "snowflake" but I can see where OP is coming from. Yes, some people will have genuine anxieties about returning to the office and they deserve to be heard and supported. But let's not pretend that there aren't people out there who are using covid as an excuse for their own selfish reasons.

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