Returning to work in real life

[Sandra15]

We are having a Zoom call about returning to work. Regardless of the need to feel safe, a member of staff has said that she can find quiet places to work at home, and she is stressed and anxious about people coming in and out of the office and will find it distracting.

What? That was normal 18 months ago. AIBU to think this is snowflake-ish?

@Siite

How ridiculous can people be. If it's fine for others to have worked for the benefit of, and have been exposed to, the general public throughout, and it's fine to do all the things you want to be free to do, get the fuck back to work.

It's not about Covid, though. It's about her working better and being less anxious at home generally. Unless productivity suffers I can't see a single reason why you wouldn't want a happier, more comfortable employee where the role allows you to do that?

Some jobs can't, and that's shit. But I wouldn't take a job now that didn't offer me WFH, and I know a lot of talented, experienced people in the same boat in my small, niche industry. Employers will have to step up or find themselves lacking in talent, simple as that.

I have worked throughout in a keyworker, public facing role and we were advised to wfh where possible. Tbh my service functions best the majority of the time when people are in the office, working as a team. The issue my manager has is that there are a couple of people who are now refusing to come in and it impacts on the rest of the team which builds resentment. Both returned from mat leave during the pandemic and are worried about childcare costs, which I am sympathetic to because I have been there, including more recently as a lone parent with no family support. The reality is that they are only available outside the home on limited days causing issues when we are on duty or if there is an emergency on their cases. I think lots of workplaces may move to a hybrid of WFH and in the office but people need to be flexible.

Both returned from mat leave during the pandemic and are worried about childcare costs

I'm paying for nursery myself but there is no way anyone should be WFH as a permanent solution with a 1 year old.

I'm working in the office two days a week now, pre-covid it was full time in the office. I quite like the mix. I am definitely more productive at home though, less distractions.

@Waxonwaxoff0 so you don't believe neuro diversity or mental health issues should be treated with as much care as physical disabilities? By employers? That's quite interesting.

But the point is the person op is talking about simply enquired. Didn't demand or kick up a fuss or refuse to come back.

And yet you agree its snowflake behaviour?

[quote Katedanielshasakitty]@Waxonwaxoff0 so you don't believe neuro diversity or mental health issues should be treated with as much care as physical disabilities? By employers? That's quite interesting.

But the point is the person op is talking about simply enquired. Didn't demand or kick up a fuss or refuse to come back.

And yet you agree its snowflake behaviour?[/quote]
Where did I mention the word "snowflake?" I don't use that word.

Nowhere was mental health mentioned either, "feeling anxious" doesn't automatically mean a mental health problem.

@AntiWorkBrigade

All we’re missing now from this thread is “wfh doesn’t work because I can’t get through to my bank” and “but what about teachers?”

And the classic

'Wfh breaks gdpr'

@Waxonwaxoff0 so op asked *is it snowflakey?'

And you said yanbu.

@Waxonwaxoff0 this person asked one video call. Their anxiety could definitely be a mental health issue.

People rarely volunteer 'I have a diagnosis of x' on a video call.

I can't work out what you are saying. If anxiety is diagnosed, then they should try to accommodate it?

Are we back to just assume anyone with anxiety is probably lying unless they have seen their doctor? Ignoring the many reasons people find that difficult?

@Intherightplace

I think the vast majority will be back in offices more or less full time within 3 years, regardless of what employers are saying now. Men will be the first to go, having fewer ties at home and being glad of the excuse to miss bath time. In the years it takes women to realise they need to do the same, so many opportunities will have been lost. In theory of course, it's possible to maintain a profile remotely, but the reality will be that opportunities go to people who are make themselves most visible.

I think this too. I think lots and lots of women will decide they like the flexibility of WFH more than they care about progression, which is absolutely fair and reasonable on an individual level but will be yet another reason why women will be in a more precarious position than men as they reach retirement with much less pension provision, at which point being able to put on the washing at lunchtime might seem like it wasn't such a great deal after all.

its snowflakish and bloody pathetic , she likes working from home and just doesnt want to have to get out of it to go back out to work , i highly doubt shes feeling unsafe which sounds ridiculous in itself , like shes about to be mugged at gunpoint or some damn thing .

[quote Katedanielshasakitty]@Waxonwaxoff0 this person asked one video call. Their anxiety could definitely be a mental health issue.

People rarely volunteer 'I have a diagnosis of x' on a video call.

I can't work out what you are saying. If anxiety is diagnosed, then they should try to accommodate it?

Are we back to just assume anyone with anxiety is probably lying unless they have seen their doctor? Ignoring the many reasons people find that difficult?[/quote]
It's fine for an employee to request WFH. But if the employer says no, that doesn't work for the business then you have to suck it up or look for another job. If they have a mental health condition that makes it too difficult to go into work then wouldn't they have to request a doctor's note anyway, that is standard.

Anxiety about being back in the workplace doesn’t have to be anxiety about Coronavirus. She may have spent the majority of the past 18 months on her own and now be struggling with the idea of being in the office. I know i’m not looking forward to it (although no talk about a mass return for us as yet). I don’t like radios and background noise in the office but had to put up with as as I wouldn’t have imposed my preferences on my colleagues. Now in my spare room I have total silence most of my working day I would definitely be looking for a quiet space if I was in the office.
Some people struggle with social interaction other people hate being on their own. People are not all the same and it’s a bit judgemental to call her a snowflake for expressing concern about how she will deal with noise and people distracting her.

YANBU. Bet she doesn’t have a problem going to the shops etc.

It's fine for an employee to request WFH. But if the employer says no, that doesn't work for the business then you have to suck it up or look for another job. If they have a mental health condition that makes it too difficult to go into work then wouldn't they have to request a doctor's note anyway, that is standard.

And that's all this person did. Enquire about it and explain their reasons why. But you agreed with op that it was 'snowflakey'. How can it 'snowflakey' to enquire about this and also be ok to ask?

And no, they don't have to have a 'doctors note'. They can do a flexible working request. Or request a referral to occupational health. Neither require a 'doctors note'

Even with a 'doctors note' employers don't have to accommodate. But should stop anyone from requesting better working conditions or working conditions that help them in general.

@drpet49

YANBU. Bet she doesn’t have a problem going to the shops etc.

What does that have to do with anything?

People can feel anxious and stressed about one situation and not stressed about another. Or anxious and stressed in both.

Going to the shop and working in an office with background noise all day are 2 different things.

TBF we are all expected back half time in September as far as I know.

I have been extremely productive at home more so than I ever was at work and have worked properly without skiving off for umpteen excuses unlike some of my colleagues.

I am not a snowflake I haven’t been out drinking or posted things on social media but I am CEV as I have blood cancer so I have been extremely careful and I am extremely anxious about going back to work.

@drpet49

YANBU. Bet she doesn’t have a problem going to the shops etc.

This has no bearing on anything. Even if the anxiety were related to Covid, sitting all day in close proximity to others is a completely different ballgame to going around Sainsbury’s a couple of times a week.

And quite apart from Covid, open office environment is known to be a stressor for some people. They aren’t lying. And just because they aren’t totally blocked from doing it doesn’t mean it doesn’t take a toll.

Just to add, there is a flip side to this. We are pretty sure our admin will be kept WFH and for some this is a real blow. I work for an LA who are pretty inclusive employers however, as we predicted last April, public services took (another) hit to pay for this. So admin are not being replaced and placed in a pool wfh. Some loved being in the office and part of a team. My friend has significant disabilities and valued being in the office and we value her. Another friend is stuck in a loft bedroom in her toxic parents house after a relationship break-up. They do not get paid enough, despite being really skilled and invaluable, to secure spacious accommodation with room to work.

I can quite see that WFH has its advantages. It generally isn’t possible in my line of work but if it was I’d want to do it so I do understand.

What I don’t like about it though, and I’ve seen this a lot on MN, is that family homes have stopped having that as their primary function and have ended up being workplaces. I’ve seen countless threads where women and children are trapped in one corner of the house unable to make noise or have guests over. And I do think that’s wrong.

Sorry, where does the OP say the employee simply asked or enquired or whatever nice polite term you want to use? Reads to me like she could easily be refusing point blank to come in. Talk about reading what you want to read.

@willstarttomorrow - absolutely. I have a friend who is really worried that she won’t be able to return to the office. She’s very sociable and finds wfh intolerable. She has said she would have to leave, although she is hopeful it won’t come to that. Even though I’m the opposite myself, I understand people are different and I don’t dismiss people who get upset about things that don’t bother me as snowflakes.

Didn’t mean to suggest you were implying this, btw, willstart!

a member of staff has said that she can find quiet places to work at home, and she is stressed and anxious about people coming in and out of the office and will find it distracting

@woodpell What part of this sentence could say that she point blank refused to come in?

Op hasn't hinted or said she is refusing to come in. Not even said that she was saying in a combative way.

In the absence of op saying she was a dick about it, why would any assume she probably was?

Infact, she didn't even enquire. Enquire wasn't the right word. As far as we know..she simply made a statement about how she feels about it.

Its you are reading things into it that aren't there.

She when has it ever been assumed that people talking about how they feel about something, means they must be demanding their own way?

I kind of understand her. I've always struggled with background noise when trying to work. I get distracted very easily and I recognise that's my own problem, one I dealt with pre-COVID by arriving at work earlier in the morning and leave late at night, knowing I'd have a few solid hours there before the office filled up so I could do some concentrated work.

I do wonder how I'll be when we go back to the office after having had so long working in silence, however, I don't think it'll be anything like before as our office capacity has been reduced massively so there'll be far fewer people in at one time.

But back to the original point, I do understand what she means. I've always struggled to focus with any kind of noise. Even things like reading a book on a train, I couldn't manage, I'd have to read the same page multiple times for it to sink in.