Homeopathy vs home remedies

[suspiria777]

After a long time reading on MN and elsewhere, and just general chats to people at work or at weddings or whatever, I've come to the conclusion that a significant proportion of people don't really understand what homeopathy is, and think of it as roughly synonymous with 'natural medicine' or 'home remedies'.

Am i mistaken?

I can't think what else would explain the large proportion of otherwise seemingly sensible people who discuss homeopathy as if it actually has good scientific evidence base. Surely people don't back it if they realise it is just water and woo woo?

What do you think?

Why on earth would a person with a medical degree then undertake training to be a homeopath? How is that compatible?

@gingerandsmall please don't equate homeopathy (load of bollocks completely discredited by RCTs) and acupuncture (sounds like bollocks but actually works and has been clinically proven for lots of things including migraine, osteoarthritis of the knee, chronic pain, and some other stuff I can't be arsed to check right now). Otherwise you will sound as silly as your professor.

@WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld

That domestic abuse article is terrifying. How scary the claim that they can treat MH conditions and use sugar pills for the abuser and the abused I think homeopathic vets should be banned. If an adult wants to take a placebo fine but it's cruel to deny pets proper treatment

I’m still not convinced myself…. But I have a friend who is a human/veterinary homeopath. She is no-nonsense, scientific, and an excellent vet. She would never give homeopathy instead of a conventional medicine when needed, she is not an antivaxxer or anything like that, she does not push the alternative medicine but sometimes uses it in a complementary/adjunctive way.

She made a remedy for me once which I think helped despite my pessimism - although probably placebo. What I do like is the holistic approach that practitioners take, particularly taking into account previous trauma and mental health into picture - not just ailing body parts.

I would agree the nhs should not fund unproven treatment while NICE recommend proven treatments which are turned down on cost grounds.

It is a shame to see so much name calling on this thread though.

What name calling? People are discussing the topic without calling each other names?

Calling parents of dead children f*ing idiots?

@BoreOfWhabylon

I posted this years ago on this thread

This is reminding me of the Young Earth Creationist threads.

What is really exercising me though is not so much the worried well throwing away their money on sugar pills remembering water which remembered something else; it is the obscene way this garbage is being touted in African countries as a CURE for malaria, HIV, TB and infant diarrhoea www.theguardian.com/science/2009/jun/01/world-health-organisation-homeopathy-hiv
It is criminal, in my opinion, and yet it s being promoted and supported by homeopathic communities in this country.

Don't forget the shitshow when Neal's Yard were promoting a homeopathic malaria treatment then refused to take part in a web chat because participants made it clear they were going to ask about it and obviously they couldn't defend it. www.theguardian.com/environment/ethicallivingblog/2009/may/28/neals-yard-remedies-pr

12 years on and I haven't bought anything from them since.

I’ve taken homeopathic remedies for years. Sometimes they help and sometimes they don’t.

Just because I don’t understand it doesn’t mean it isn’t real.

I don’t understand quantum physics. Yet that’s real. Look it up on Wikipedia and see if your mind is blown by what appears to be utter fantasy nonsense. How anyone could believe that is beyond me. Yet it’s real. Even though it seems barking mad.

So I’ve come to the conclusion that sometimes weird stuff that doesn’t make sense is real. And I remain open minded to stuff that hasn’t yet been proved. It may only be a matter of time before it is.

And the other thing to consider is that drug companies don’t invest in homeopathic trials as these meds are not new so there’s no profit in them for a drug company to make so they don’t invest in them. So perhaps that’s why there are no studies that prove the efficacy of homeopathic medicine. Yet. Perhaps one day though. I remain open minded. If they help people whose symptoms have been failed by conventional medicine then that’s good.

Acupuncture IS scientifically proven and in regular use in GP surgeries nowadays. It has a good track record with pain and women’s reproductive systems.

A few years ago I used to follow someone on you tube called Christine Newman. She was diagnosed with triple negative breast cancer a very a aggressive form of cancer after surgery and a lymph node resection she was told she needed 6 months of chemo and radiation.
She refused these as she said she could cut herself naturally. Her doctors and even her herbalists told her she would die without the chemo but still she refused.
She latter put up a video of how much she regretted this decision and she started on chemo but by the time she came to this point it was to late and even with the chemo she died a storm time later leaving a young daughter and husband.
There is no saying if the chemo would have saved her life had she started it chemo after surgery as her doctors wanted but the survival rate without treatment is nil and the 5 year survival rate with is over 50%.
Her videos are still on YouTube and here she pretty much signs her own death certificate

So I’ve come to the conclusion that sometimes weird stuff that doesn’t make sense is real. And I remain open minded to stuff that hasn’t yet been proved. It may only be a matter of time before it is.

Would you like some free money? I can't explain how it'll work, but it does involve you giving me your credit card details. Keep an open mind! I can prove it ... later...

The thing about quantum physics is that the people studying it can tell you how it works. It doesn't involve particles being sentient and having memories.

Do you believe that if you looked at a homeopathic remedy for hayfever under an appropriately strong microscope it would look different from a remedy for bruises? Do you at least acknowledge there is no difference between them (because there is no ingredient present)?

Anyone advertising as a homeopathic doctor MUST have a standard medicine degree on top of homeopathy training.
This is absolutely untrue. I can water it down if you like; utter bollocks.

@Quarantino
You seem to think I’m some kind of fuckwit that hands over bank details just because I am open minded! Really!?

There are areas of science which haven’t been totally proved yet, I think black holes are one. I just think that in time homeopathy will probably be proven. It’s just not happened yet. So I remain open minded. And if it’s a placebo that works for some, fine.

Quantum physics can be presumably proved by boffins NOW. Back in the day when everyone KNEW the Earth was flat, this was not the case.

Everything has a frequency. Everything vibrates at its own frequency. That’s why they put quartz in quartz watches, to help regulate the time, apparently.

So presumably, although the remedy has been diluted, some of that must remain. Either that or the whole ‘water has memory’ thing. I don’t know. I’m not sufficiently interested to look it up to be honest.

All I’m saying is that if I don’t understand something I don’t write it off. Especially if some people benefit.

@Elieza if you were sufficiently interested to look it up, you'd find that all the scientific studies done have shown that homeopathy is completely ineffective, except maybe for the placebo effect. That's not because science hasn't discovered the effectiveness yet, or doesn't understand it. It's because it's true.

*I’ve taken homeopathic remedies for years. Sometimes they help and sometimes they don’t.

Just because I don’t understand it doesn’t mean it isn’t real.

I don’t understand quantum physics. Yet that’s real. Look it up on Wikipedia and see if your mind is blown by what appears to be utter fantasy nonsense. How anyone could believe that is beyond me. Yet it’s real. Even though it seems barking mad.*

Um ... do you not realise that many people do understand quantum physics? You may not. Personally, I don't understand how my washing machine works. I don't presume that means it is 'utter fantasy nonsense'. I just accept I'm a bit thick when it comes to washing machine plumbing. Maybe you need to take the same approach?

There are areas of science which haven’t been totally proved yet, I think black holes are one. I just think that in time homeopathy will probably be proven. It’s just not happened yet. So I remain open minded. And if it’s a placebo that works for some, fine.

No area of science has been proved. How could it be? Science isn't amenable to proof, and that has nothing to do with the placebo effect (which, demonstrably, works) or homeopathy (which, demonstrably, doesn't).

I’ve taken homeopathic remedies for years. Sometimes they help and sometimes they don’t.

What you mean is sometimes you get better and sometimes you don't. You know, like you would anyway.

Here is a handy guide on how it works for those who are unsure of the “science”.
crispian-jago.blogspot.com/2009/09/if-homeopathy-works-ill-drink-my-own.html?m=1

@Flyingantday
Calling parents of dead children f*ing idiots?
Yes. We're talking about people who have been jailed for the manslaughter of their children, having failed to seek actual medical treatment for easily treatable conditions.

I think 'fucking idiots' was fairly generous in the circumstances.

There are areas of science which haven’t been totally proved yet, I think black holes are one. I just think that in time homeopathy will probably be proven. It’s just not happened yet. So I remain open minded. And if it’s a placebo that works for some, fine.
There are, of course, things that scientists don't understand. Perhaps they can observe things happening but cannot understand the cause.

That is not the case with homoeopathy. If homeopathy performed better than a placebo in trials, then you could argue that perhaps the particulars of how it works are not understood. However, time and time and time again, the outcomes of homeopathic patients have been shown to be no better than patients who were given a placebo. There is no causology to understand. It simply does not work.

I don’t know how to insert clicky links, but look up the Mitchell and Webb skit on homeopathy. It is utter genius!

@Flyingantday

Placebos work because of belief and trust - in the pill, in the person administering it etc. So it would be likely in your case that the trust in your friend and her abilities was strong enough to override your skepticism and was the cause of the placebo effect.

Homeopathy may well work as a placebo in some cases, if the person believes in it / the practitioner’s ability enough.

However, when more robust, effective remedies available are eschewed in favour of these, especially on kids or animals, it’s cruel.

In these cases, homeopathy isn’t ‘harmless’.

This is so ignorant and narrow minded.

I have definitely seen herbal remedies mixed up with homeopathy on here.
Homeopathy is clearly a ridiculous concept from start to finish.

@Bumblecattabbybee

This is so ignorant and narrow minded.

What is? How is it ignorant and narrow minded to think that something with no evidence whatsoever behind it may be effective, something that assumes water has "memory" would be effective? Ignorant and narrow minded or realistic ?

I see someone mentioned Neal's Yard on an earlier post. I don't shop from them any more for similar reasons. Their stuff smells lovely and I'm a sucker for an essential oil, but I can't condone their overstepping into real woo territory.

I am quite happy to accept remedies and procedures that are proved to work, such as meditation, which lowers blood pressure and acupuncture for pain, even when no one is sure how they work, as I think that physical and mental health are so intertwined and complicated, that we really don't know half of what goes on in our bodies.