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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Developer Wanting to Put Temporary Fencing on Our Land

50 replies

itsnotmeitsu · 22/07/2021 21:19

We border onto a school/playing field which is having around 150 properties being built on it. We were informed recently that the developer wants a party wall agreement with us, as the block of apartments due to be built alongside our boundary requires laying drainage, etc, under our land, and deeper than our foundations. The party wall agreement offers several options. We've taken the option of having the surveyors acting for the council (the owner of that land) also acting for us. Today we had a visit from a surveyor to document the inside and outside of our property on that boundary line, as any damage due to the works carried out will have to be put right by them.

We already knew that the original school fencing would be removed - inconvenient for us (animals, etc) but perfectly reasonable - the fence belonged to the school, and thus the council. But what we found out today was that the developers want to remove the current fence and then put up a temporary plastic fence on our land to carry out these works. That part of our boundary is only about eight feet from that side of our house. It's one storey and has four bedroom windows and a bathroom on that side. I think (hope) the joint surveyor is going to say that's not reasonable.

OP posts:
Thevoiceofreason2021 · 22/07/2021 21:22

Have you had a chat with a solicitor about this?

tallduckandhandsome · 22/07/2021 21:22

YANBU, it's your land so you decide. What do the deeds say?

Original poster
itsnotmeitsu · 22/07/2021 21:25

I suppose my 'AIBU' is, do I have to allow this, because developers seem to be able to sidestep the historic local planning rules?

OP posts:
Original poster
itsnotmeitsu · 22/07/2021 21:28

@Thevoiceofreason2021 > Do not want to get solicitors involved, as apparently courts are very reluctant to get involved in boundary disputes, and there's no way I want to be spending money on this (or have it on record in case of selling) unless I really have to. I shouldn't have to pay for legal services to stop a developer using my private property to carry out their building work.

OP posts:
HavfrueDenizKisi · 22/07/2021 21:42

My gut feeling is no you don't have to allow it on your land. But I would be looking at using a solicitor now as my feeling is you'll be railroaded into agreeing otherwise. Sounds like there are other issues - did I read they want to put drainage on your land or did I misunderstand? Anyway it sounds larger than saying no firmly.

whatnextdandelions · 22/07/2021 21:47

can you not just refuse to sign the party wall agreement until they provide one that has them doing everything and running all utilities on their own land?
Why are they laying drainage on your land? surely you are under no obligation to allow that?

Original poster
itsnotmeitsu · 22/07/2021 22:05

@whatnextdandelions > Turns out the 'party wall agreement' can apply outside, as well to a connecting wall. This meant we were given notice of what was planned and had three options. One was to agree to the works, and then the party wall agreement wasn't needed. Another was to appoint their surveyor to work for us as well as them (no costs on our side), which is what we chose to do. We'll get the surveyor's report soon, and I think he's been able to see how unreasonable it would be to have them come onto that part of our land to do the work.

OP posts:
Pheasantplucker2 · 23/07/2021 00:05

I am not an expert, but we had to get a party wall agreement with our neighbour for our extension, and she had the option to appoint her own surveyor at our cost.

We didn’t have to go down this route, but I remember reading the options and as we were the people needing the works, any costs associated with the party wall were absolutely our cost, regardless of who appointed the surveyor.

Who told you there would be costs if you didn’t go with their surveyor?

I would ring an independent surveyor in the morning and check out the situation with the party wall agreement. I would then insist everything comes to a halt whilst your surveyor carries out their own independent survey.

I also believe that there is probably a figure you should be offered for access to your land - if you decide to grant it. I don’t believe any of this should be a fair accompli.

As I said, not an expert at all but from my limited experience it sounds like you’ve been misled

violetbunny · 23/07/2021 05:23

I'm not an expert either, but it seems like all of the "options" they gave you are stacked in their favour.

Disfordarkchocolate · 23/07/2021 05:27

By drainage do they mean infrastructure such as pipes etc or works to prevent flooding on your land because of the new build?

I think you need to be a lot more proactive here to make sure your house isn't devalued.

Newnormal99 · 23/07/2021 05:38

I thought the person issuing the party wall paid costs whether it was their solicitor or you chose your own.

araiwa · 23/07/2021 05:40

If they're digging under your land, surely you want a fence up round that area?

You don't seem to have an issue with the digging so why the fence?

Lovelydovey · 23/07/2021 05:52

Under Party Wall law you can require your own surveyor to be appointed at their cost. How incredibly cheeky that they didn’t tell you that.

I would raise merry hell over that procedural cock up. And I would make clear that they cannot place drainage etc under your land as this raises all sorts of issues for the future. The temporary fence is also outrageous. I think they’re taking the absolute piss.

endofthelinefinally · 23/07/2021 06:10

They have already misled you by giving you incorrect information about your rights regarding your choice of party wall surveyor. I would not trust them an inch and I would not allow them access to your land.
IME neither the council nor the developer will give a toss about your property or your legal rights.
You should absolutely appoint your own independent surveyor for whom the developer should pay.
No way would I want anybody digging under my property.

Henrysmycat · 23/07/2021 06:10

Agreed with @Lovelydovey.
Don’t let them rail road you and it’s a bit naive thinking their surveyor acting for both will have your best interests at heart.

Shapesorted · 23/07/2021 06:16

Are they compensating you in any way?

lannistunut · 23/07/2021 06:21

@Lovelydovey

Under Party Wall law you can require your own surveyor to be appointed at their cost. How incredibly cheeky that they didn’t tell you that.

I would raise merry hell over that procedural cock up. And I would make clear that they cannot place drainage etc under your land as this raises all sorts of issues for the future. The temporary fence is also outrageous. I think they’re taking the absolute piss.

Think you need to listen to this, you need your own representative.

Btw you won't have to declare a party wall discussion as it'll be completed soon, it isn't the same as a neighbour dispute.

NewIdeasToday · 23/07/2021 06:43

I really think you need to stick up for yourselves much more assertively here. The developer sounds like they are manipulating you already due to your inexperience here.

They should pay for you to have an independent party wall surveyor.

And it sounds like a large site, so why on earth should drainage etc have to go on your land?

The obvious reason is so the developer can squeeze as many houses as possible into the site by pushing the boundaries.

Don’t let them walk all over you. They are trying to increase their profit with no regard for the impact on the value of your home or your quality of life while the development is built.

Does your home insurance have legal cover? It may be possible to get some advice that way.

Zampa · 23/07/2021 06:47

In case you're in the North West, I have a great Party Wall expert who I can recommend to you. As per PPs, his costs would be met by the other side.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 23/07/2021 06:51

I'd be very very careful agreeing to anything without having specialist advice 'in your corner'

Make sure you're aware of ALL potential sequelae..

Once building has started, it's much more difficult to object..if you just hadn't realised what it would mean... If you've agreed to it

notanothertakeaway · 23/07/2021 07:00

Check your household insurance. If you have legal expenses insurance, it may pay for a solicitor in the event of a dispute

But from what PP are saying, the developer should be funding your costs

It's convenient for you to have the local authority surveyor, but I wonder how much they would advocate for you

And if the developer can't dig your land without your. Consent, i assume that puts you in a strong negotiating position. Don't let them bully you. And don't be fooled if they say eg "we need to do it this way", as it still doesn't necessarily follow that you are obliged to allow it

FoolsAssassin · 23/07/2021 07:02

I have very little knowledge of Party Wall act but is that correct that if you had consented then the Party Wall Act wouldn’t have been necessary? I thought the Party Wall Act was to protect your property amd so you had legal recourse in the event that something happened during the course of the works is always necessary in certain circumstances? Others much more knowledgeable than me so apologies if that’s totally wrong.

Given that they have definitely misrepresented how it works by failing to say you have the option to appoint your own surveyor with them paying the costs I would be straight onto local Facebook page this morning and ask for recommendations for surveyors that others have used for Party Wall agreements, I think by the sound of it you are going to need a good one .

As someone said , this is different to a boundary dispute and I think you will regret carrying on with the council surveyor, they will not be acting in your best interests.

YellowBellyCat · 23/07/2021 07:04

I’d be getting my own surveyor. As a priority you need to make sure this drainage isn’t going to increase the risk of your property flooding….it sounds like they’re going to install drains to divert water from the playing field onto your land?? Bollocks to that. They have to pay for a surveyor of your picking. Don’t use their biased surveyor.

endofthelinefinally · 23/07/2021 07:04

OP, you really need to google and read the party wall regulations.

YellowBellyCat · 23/07/2021 07:05

The local authority one has a vested interest in making sure it goes as smoothly as possible so the local authority get the money from the developer.