AIBU to think this woman's advice is dangerous and irresponsible? *trigger warning - baby/pregnancy loss mentioned*

[Callisto22]

So there's a woman I know, sort of a friend of a friend. I've met her a few times in person and have her on social media. She's a sort of ex-party girl turned hippy type. A nice person but comes across as very desperate to be seen as spiritual, free, 'off-grid' type.

She has given herself the job title of 'Ecstatic Birth Coach' - basically people pay her to do online courses about connecting to their womb, having an unmediated birth with no medical intervention, that sort of thing. Fair enough, people seem to be willing to pay for that - except that she gives out advice that I know from experience is extremely dangerous. Considering she has absolutely no medical training I really think she should not be saying these things. A few examples I've come across when scrolling through her instagram:

• No need to go to growth scans, trust that your body is growing exactly the right baby for you.
• Refuse induction, no matter how 'overdue' you go. Your baby will be born when they are ready, even if it's 42/43/44 weeks

-If your baby's movements change or stop don't worry, trust that your body and baby are healthy

Now, I may be particularly sensitive to this, because I have been through stillbirth and miscarriages. I also (through baby loss support groups) have many friends who have been through stillbirths, so it is something I'm overly aware of, so I feel so so angry when I see her giving out advice like this. She is coming from such a ridiculously privileged position of never having experienced any sort of pregnancy problems. She genuinely thinks that if you just 'trust' your body then everything will work out and you can just breathe out your baby whenever they are ready. I'm so terrified that someone will follow her advice and as a result a baby will suffer.

When I read through the comments from all the women who follow her they talk so smugly about how they refused all medical care and had an amazing birth at 42 weeks (for example), and I kind of just think they were really really lucky, but might not be next time. They really seem to look down on people who use hospitals and midwives. Unfortunately I know from experience that sometimes placentas fail, birth accidents happen, babies can have restricted growth and need medication and monitoring to keep them alive. I wouldn't wish what I've been through on anyone, ever.

Am I just bitter and angry because I can't have the happy birth and pregnancy experience that she can, or am I right to be concerned about her giving out advice as if she is medically qualified? I think it's great to promote freedom to choose how to birth, but I also think women really need to be educated about what can go wrong and the risks they are taking if they ignore medical advice.

YANBU - she's a dangerous fool

YANBU I wonder if there is someone:some official body she can be reported to.

Heart breaking that she is increasing the risk of stillbirth

Her "wisdom" sounds like a very strong reaction against the poor science that has dogged obstetrics and gynaecology for the past century or so.

There has to be a middle ground, and people like her only succeed in swinging the pendulum too far the other way.

She’s dangerous and mad. Fine to follow her advice if you’re in the 80% of people who would have survived childbirth 100 years ago, fatal if you’re not. Then again maybe if those old timers had just thought positively they wouldn’t have died. Ffs

She is dangerous. I went to 42 weeks at age 40 with DS2 and had a gritty placenta and ended up with c section. All ok but if I’d done it again I would never have gone to 42 weeks.
I was told by a friend that her NCT group leader advocated not going for scans. I hope that’s not NCT policy but it put me off going anywhere near them.

What an awful woman. So sorry for your losses. Telling women to ignore reduced or no movement is so bad I am genuinely speechless.

I hate this idea that you can trust your body, mine failed and I still feel robbed of the relaxing hypnobirthing water birth I wanted for my first! However, me and my daughter are both alive which I strongly believe would not have happened if I had not been induced.

OP, I would ask her if she has insurance cover. Because if a woman takes her advice and suffers a stillbirth, they will sue the ass off her. Deservedly.
It might make the stupid fool think twice about the shit she is proposing.

What a tit. I had a straight forward pregnancy. No issues until week 36 when pre-eclampsia set in, then placenta accreta found after dd was born. If I had listened to a tit like her I'd be in that 20% mentioned above and bled to death. Thank god for balloon occlusion.

@Maray1967

She is dangerous. I went to 42 weeks at age 40 with DS2 and had a gritty placenta and ended up with c section. All ok but if I’d done it again I would never have gone to 42 weeks. I was told by a friend that her NCT group leader advocated not going for scans. I hope that’s not NCT policy but it put me off going anywhere near them.

Definitely not NCT policy!

That's quite scary. The difficulty may be that she's not using a protected title so there may not be a role for the Nursing and Midwifery Council. People dumb enough to believe she has anything to offer might come under 'buyer beware'.

I'd still consider an email to the NMC with a link to her site to ask their view on how to report unregistered medical advice.

@FilthyforFirth

What an awful woman. So sorry for your losses. Telling women to ignore reduced or no movement is so bad I am genuinely speechless.

Yes 100%. There is v little you can do except distance yourself. Sadly, these "influencers" are everywhere, generally relatively harmless but this is the exception. As she is not professional, there is no "body" she can be reported to. She is a dangerous person.

I went to 42 +3 with my 2nd still hadn't gone into labour. Grade 3 meconium in my waters which is a serious risk plus the placenta was definitely past it's best.

Even with DC4 I only waited to 42 weeks because that's a massive risk, what if I just never went into spontaneous labour and I ended up with my DD being born alive as was bloody common before intervention was more common place?

Oh gosh! She's ignorant as are the women who follow her shite. We have this technology these days to try and avoid stillbirths & miscarriages! I too have had a stillbirth, a lot has changed since mines because we have more knowledge and knowledge is power.

YANBU. Very dangerous. If I "trusted my body" then neither DD1 nor I would have survived her birth. I think contacting the National College of Midwives for advice is a good idea.

How awful. I couldn’t be friends with her I don’t think. I certainly wouldn’t be following her on social media.

Sounds like if any of her clients get into difficulty she'll say they didn't trust their body hard enough. Or used a shampoo with artificial ingredients or ate non- organic broccoli.
It's offensive and dangerous.

@Babdoc

OP, I would ask her if she has insurance cover. Because if a woman takes her advice and suffers a stillbirth, they will sue the ass off her. Deservedly. It might make the stupid fool think twice about the shit she is proposing.

That's a good point.

She sounds dreadful, but if people believe that kind of crap what can you do?
You would hope that most mothers to be have at least regular midwife appointments.

Social media companies are under a lot of pressure at the moment to combat misinformation, so might be worth a try reporting her posts to them, too

OP, I would ask her if she has insurance cover. Because if a woman takes her advice and suffers a stillbirth, they will sue the ass off her. Deservedly.

This was my first thought too. Wouldn’t be surprised if she finds herself on the end of a personal injury/negligence claim.

An NCT leader might say they didn't advocate private scans for non medical reasons eg 3D scans. It's a point if view. These things have a habit of being taken out of context and repeated.

The trouble with practitioners like the one outlined in the OP is that antenatal education is unregulated. FEDANT membership means nothing. At least with organisations like the NCT there is an expectation of evidence based information and if that is not followed there is oversight and a complaints structure.

I am really very sorry for your pain and losses.

Her advice sounds categorically dangerous.

I always find it amazing that these hippy spiritual types always have to monetise their gifts / wisdom - not v generous is it? And they never set their fees at minimum wage!

Does she have any sponsors - as she could do a lot of damage to their brands.....

She sounds like a dangerous idiot. I'm not sure what can be done, though, as she sounds very unlikely to be registered with any professional body. Does she give this recklessly dangerous advice in online adverts? If so, maybe worth approaching the advertising standards authority?

She's a fool and shouldn't be giving advice to anyone.