AIBU to think this woman's advice is dangerous and irresponsible? *trigger warning - baby/pregnancy loss mentioned*

[Callisto22]

So there's a woman I know, sort of a friend of a friend. I've met her a few times in person and have her on social media. She's a sort of ex-party girl turned hippy type. A nice person but comes across as very desperate to be seen as spiritual, free, 'off-grid' type.

She has given herself the job title of 'Ecstatic Birth Coach' - basically people pay her to do online courses about connecting to their womb, having an unmediated birth with no medical intervention, that sort of thing. Fair enough, people seem to be willing to pay for that - except that she gives out advice that I know from experience is extremely dangerous. Considering she has absolutely no medical training I really think she should not be saying these things. A few examples I've come across when scrolling through her instagram:

• No need to go to growth scans, trust that your body is growing exactly the right baby for you.
• Refuse induction, no matter how 'overdue' you go. Your baby will be born when they are ready, even if it's 42/43/44 weeks

-If your baby's movements change or stop don't worry, trust that your body and baby are healthy

Now, I may be particularly sensitive to this, because I have been through stillbirth and miscarriages. I also (through baby loss support groups) have many friends who have been through stillbirths, so it is something I'm overly aware of, so I feel so so angry when I see her giving out advice like this. She is coming from such a ridiculously privileged position of never having experienced any sort of pregnancy problems. She genuinely thinks that if you just 'trust' your body then everything will work out and you can just breathe out your baby whenever they are ready. I'm so terrified that someone will follow her advice and as a result a baby will suffer.

When I read through the comments from all the women who follow her they talk so smugly about how they refused all medical care and had an amazing birth at 42 weeks (for example), and I kind of just think they were really really lucky, but might not be next time. They really seem to look down on people who use hospitals and midwives. Unfortunately I know from experience that sometimes placentas fail, birth accidents happen, babies can have restricted growth and need medication and monitoring to keep them alive. I wouldn't wish what I've been through on anyone, ever.

Am I just bitter and angry because I can't have the happy birth and pregnancy experience that she can, or am I right to be concerned about her giving out advice as if she is medically qualified? I think it's great to promote freedom to choose how to birth, but I also think women really need to be educated about what can go wrong and the risks they are taking if they ignore medical advice.

Oh I've seen a woman like this on social media- she advocates "free birthing" (no medical people present at all) and thinks scans are unnecessary/pointless. She also likes to post smugly about how mothers who've had c sections don't bond with their babies properly. Having had both a c section and vaginal birth AND having experienced a PPH, I just laugh and think "what an idiot". I hope not too many people are drawn into this crap!

Really good idea from @Babdoc - the thought of being hit in the wallet might give her a shock.

Absolutely awful that she's peddling this bollocks.

Sorry for your losses OP

I assume though she does not hold any relevant qualifications and shes not advertising that she does?
So her opinions are just that opinions
They are dangerous opinions but some people believe any old crap

I think it’s a shame NCT is so patchy.

My practitioner was fantastic and was very practical, talked about what to expect, pain relief options, what a c section might be like.

I felt like I knew what was happening to me even though it was a bloody car crash.

A friend having a baby at the same time covered none of the pain relief or c-section stuff.

There should be a more structured program.

I suspect my practitioner having had a very traumatic section in the past meant she like to advocate unassisted births but wanted us to be prepared.

So murky
Sadly when you google “ecstatic birth coach” there’s more than one of these “experts”

I don’t recall any midwives or doctors reciting incantations, waxing lyrical about womb empowerment and visualisation or wafting sage around when my three labours went a bit arse over tit
The most one of them ventured was “breath through the contractions”

I remember a few years back someone who was in these unassisted pregnancy groups (at the point I was running a homebirth group - not freebirth although you had a free people there who did want to free birth) she ended up with a stillbirth (it was quite scary she was saying she felt her movements had decreased - I think she was over 42 weeks, we were all saying (even those who were freebirthing) that she needed to contact the midwife and go in and get checked. This other group (according to her) was telling her everything would be fine if she trusted in herself

After a few days she did go in - and the baby had died. She came back to our group saying that her instincts had been telling her to seek help and she wished she had - the other group (which had been telling her if she had enough faith in her body her baby would be fine) deleted every single post where she mentioned the baby had died - any 'negative' stories on that group were deleted

I wonder now if the woman you mention was the one running the group which deleted any bad outcomes on the basis of 'you don't need that negativity when you are having a baby'

I also had a stillbirth, and took years to recover from feeling that my body let me (and my darling boy) down. When the reality is that I had absolutely zero control over any of it.

People like this are batshit - but then anyone who uses someone unqualified like this probably aren't the brightest bulbs in the box either..............

The NCT does have a list of topics that need to be covered which includes caesarean birth and instrumental birth and drug based pain relief. If any NCT course didn't cover these things at all it must have been quite a while ago....if it wasn't then they should have made a complaint.

If I'd "trusted my body" I have no idea if my first child would have survived and my second would definitely have died, probably taking me with him. When it came to delivery my body didn't have a farking clue.

Follow Babdoc's advice.

YANBU. She's spreading dangerous information. I read this article the other day and it has really stayed with me. TW for still birth

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/she-wanted-freebirth-no-doctors-online-groups-convinced-her-it-n1140096

YANBU. I have just read the Call the Midwife memoir(s) and if there was ever a book to justify the need for professionally qualified midwifes...

If she had been around when I was expecting my first baby and I was stupid enough to take notice of her, my DS1 and myself would have died in childbirth together.

YANBU she's fucking dangerous

It’s ultimately the role of the individual to risk assess their own pregnancy and birth. There’s always going to be two end of the spectrum…the unassisted birthed at one end and the elected caesarean at the other. It’s up to each woman to educate herself.

Oh I’m so so glad I’m not being over sensitive. I really can’t stop thinking about some of the things she’s said and dangerous they are. I feel like she’s putting the desire to be smug about having a freebirth above the safety of babies. I personally would rather a thousand women didn’t get the birth experience they wanted if it saved one baby’s life.

She quite subtle about how she drops this information in her social posts - It’s very manipulative, implying that choosing the medical option is wrong and weak. She does a lot of online courses and one-on-one ‘coaching’ so I dread to think what advice she gives out there.

She’s actually about to give birth soon, so I’m not going to do anything right now, but I am reading and taking in all your advice/ideas. I’m not sure that anything I do or say would make a difference but I feel like I have to or I’ll always regret it.

Very dangerous

As is the NCT woman. My experience of NCT is that the leader gave no personal opinions just presented mainstream information and choices within that

Yanbu. DD had severe IUGR & was delivered prematurely after weeks of scans when it was clear blood flow to her was deteriorating.If I had even gone to 37 weeks it's likely we would have lost her.

Unfortunately, this sort of thing isn't just confined to childbirth.

I knew someone a number of years ago had a brain tumour that eventually killed him.

At the time that it was really beginning to affect him his daughter found this 'wonderful' man who apparently would, for many thousands of pounds, instruct him in the special diet and exercise regime that was able to reverse the cancer and effect a cure, apparently.

My friend's daughter was adamant that if he just followed the special diet he'd be fine.

Sometimes people, for whatever reason, want to believe the indefensible and are happy to pay for this sort of madness.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any regulations governing such scams.

There's a reason why deaths in childbirth are no longer at the rates they were before we had access to sophisticated medical intervention and that reason has nothing whatever to do with 'listening to your body'.

Has she actually had a "free birth"? I don't judge anyone for making their own decisions about their body and pregnacy/birth experience but peddling advice as a self made expert, and actively trying to sway the health decisions of others, is just horrendous. Some of those paying for this advice may be vulnerable and more at risk than others of being pushed in a wrong direction. My blood is boiling. I don't think the NMC will be able to help but it is worth a try. It sounds almost like a cult.

This is awful, so irresponsible and could cost lives that could otherwise be saved.

I am so sorry for your loss x
You are right that this approach an be dangerous for women and babies. It is the flip side of the internet that allows us to uncover lots of great advice re pregnancy and birthing but unfortunately poor advice is also widely available.
I think it is very difficult for us to recognise and filter out the bad advice particularly if it fits well with our general ethos about health etc.
Risk is such a difficult concept to grapple with in pregnancy. We all want the best possible outcome and I can see how attractive this may look from the outside .

I am very pro home birth and ‘trusting your body’ in the broad sense but this is just dangerous and irresponsible, I can totally understand your worries about the impact on others, especially relating to your own experiences.

Is there anyone who you could report this woman to? This is so dangerous.

Utterly stupid and irresponsible. My seven year old daughter would not be alive now had it not been for the amazing scanning technology and expertise available in the NHS. Had I trusted my body she would definitely have died, how awful that would be - utterly needless in this day and age.

This is where history is so important, still births were routine, maternal death was common - that’s the result of leaving it to nature. Why would you if you don’t need to?