NHS Pay award

[Thedogscollar]

So this is what they have come back with from the insulting 1% offer by increasing it to a paltry 3%.
Workers are leaving in their droves we have a massive deficit in nursing and midwifery which is worsening daily.

I work in the South East of England, we are hugely affected with shortages in staffing, virtually every 12.5 hrs shift I do we cannot have a break due to work acuity and lack of staff. We have junior staff in tears with the pressure put upon them.
We aren't paid for our break and we are hard pushed to get it back as time owing. We cover empty shifts on the bank over and above our contracted hours as we know how hard it is for our colleagues in there.
We are all reaching breaking point some are there now and gone off sick. It is exhausting physically but more so mentally as you know before you even get to work what it's going to be like.

I have payslips going back 10 plus years and in that time my salary has barely changed and I am at the top of my band.

Our management team held an urgent meeting the other day to discuss the crisis going on within our trust with staffing and work acuity. Nothing was really dealt with just more management speak.

This government has to look after the NHS staff that have given so much and still are. Staff retention is in crisis and by offering this paltry pay rise they are doing nothing to stop this disaster becoming a momentous catastrophe resulting in even worsening patient safety levels being eroded even more.

How on earth can this government justify 30 plus billions for track n trace and HSS yet not offer a decent pay rise to NHS workers and in that I include care workers too.

Boris and co should hang their heads in shame but as per they think they are doing so well in offering us anything.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing.

@Stompythedinosaur- A very dangerous approach, they will lose any good will they have accrued.

Striking over a 3% payrise when many people have lost jobs and businesses will not be a good move IMO

I don't see how we have any choice. Every other option has been explored. We have had pay cut after pay cut, how many other professions would put up with that?

NHS pay is clearly linked to the staffing crisis and to patient care.

I think a decent proportion of the public will understand.

HCPs have the publics goodwill for decades now, its not been a benefit at all.

No one has a load of goodwill towards say, those who work in the public water supply ind, yet they can earn (according to one poster) 53k p.a

So nurses might has well not have it and earn more money, they'd soon get it back regardless.

They have my full support.

Thank you.

@NotPersephone "When Labour hosed money towards health under Blair, pay went up, but productivity didn’t - the worst of both worlds for the public"

Please can you substantiate this as I think it's totally incorrect.

In 1997 public satisfaction with the nhs was at 34% by 2010 it was 70%

In 1997 the in patient wait time was 14 weeks by 2009 it was 4 weeks. Conversely 88% of people were treated for cancer within 62 days in 2010 vs 78% in 2019.

And the. Statistic about 22% of Swiss people going without healthcare due to cost is from the OECD. So it may surprise you but seems quite robust to me.

I was offered £30,000 to work on a phone line answering calls for NHS recently. No healthcare background whatsoever.

Didn't make sense to me Id be earning more than nurses were. It all seems to need a massive over haul

@NotPersephone

Otherwise put up with longer waits and more deaths in sectors like maternity.

Wow.

Sorry you can't see this, but unless you stop staff leaving, thats what will happen. Student HCP's need the experienced nhs workers to be able to finish their courses.

@NotPersephone

I certainly noticed in 2006 when we were supposedly spending European levels on health - it was astonishingly bad. I’ve had insurance since then and been in good health, luckily. (Still miss my Swiss healthcare though).

Anecdotal evidence doesn’t trump statistics. You might find this very easily understandable bar chart helpful.

Lots of HCPs are leaving @NotPersephone why do you think some many GP practices can't recruit partners, salaried GPs, PNs, ANPs and so on. I'd need to check income distribution but if doctors are paid better than 95% of population then I suspect the academics and training requirements and duration and responsibiltiies probably exceed the general population to the same %

How much do you think a junior doctor starts on? Is an FY1 starting £28k though I know it's more complicated than that headline salary and there is the progression but thats after how many years of medical school?

And I'm not saying people in other work don't work hard. IME, the hardest workers I've seen are the zero-hours and cleaners holding down three jobs.

@Blossomtoes, extra funding takes time to improve outcomes but it looks like the only thing correlated with improvements so we'll probably have more structural change instead.

* @Amijustagrump*

DP is NHS and I'm a teacher. Both feeling very let down! It they went for the 10% increase DP wouldn't be leaving, but this has made up his mind.**

^So why did your husband bother to get a job in the NHS in the first place. They have never had decent pay rises.

It's appalling OP. I have the opportunity to train as a midwife on the horizons and I don't think I'm going to do it unless I can secure a private midwife contract because at the end of the day honour doesn't pay the bills.

It's diabolical, the mental and physical strife nurses and midwives go through on a daily basis for such a shit reflective wage.

It's all lip service no action with the government.

[quote Zilla1]@Blossomtoes, extra funding takes time to improve outcomes but it looks like the only thing correlated with improvements so we'll probably have more structural change instead.[/quote]
Exactly. That’s what that lovely little chart illustrates so effectively.

YANBU! You do an incredibly difficult job that not many people can do and you and your colleagues should be paid more. The race to the bottom people who haven't had a pay rise maybe you need to unionise or take some other form of collective action. They don't deserve less money because you don't earn enough. What odd logic!!

@Blossomtoes I'm not sure some PPs really appreciate what a system that isn't comprehensive leads to either. Although France and Germany appear to have a more expensive system that appears to work better, there are many where the effects of lack of access are horrific. USA with relatively more untreated patients dying young or in MH crises. I need to check but think even after Obamacare, I read more than 500,000 American's are bankrupted every year from health costs for significant illnesses. I know it's more complex but read the American system spends more on administration than the NHS spends in total on health care provision relative to the population size.

I imagine a 12.55% increase plus pension contribution increase (plus the fact that they’ll still be demanding more for the insatiable maw in a year’s time) would put about 40p on the £ in IT. We all happy with that? Done the maths?

The following might be wrong but some back of the envelope figures that won't stand up to scrutiny.

The Times says a 3% pay rise will cost £1.5bn. So ballpark 12% payrise (which I'm not proposing) would cost £6bn.

Total income tax revenue is £194bn (there are other taxes that raise a total of c£600bn according to statista). Now increases in income tax don't lead to linear increases in revenue but it seems difficult to see how an increase in income tax total revenue of £6bn = 3% of £200bn would require an increase in headline income tax rates by 40p in the pound?

So ballpark 12% payrise (which I'm not proposing) would cost £6bn

So a sixth of the cost of track and trace which wasted £37bn. Astonishing how this government can find infinite amounts of cash for its mates, isn’t it? Thanks to all the covid deaths of over 70s, there’s an immediate £3bn saving on pensions - that would fund 6% which would probably be enough for most NHS staff.

YABU

1. I got less than 1% payrise
2. you are not the only key workers
3. we had to protect the NHS as it is so crap
4. check how much your managers earn
5. your pension is more generous than most in the private sector
6. you get ridiculous amount of discounts at shops
7. you will never be touched as all governments scared to get this joke of healthcare sorted!

I support all retail workers, my post man, my bin men… people who get on with their jobs, without payrise and without whinging!
YABU! 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Blossomtoes

So ballpark 12% payrise (which I'm not proposing) would cost £6bn

So a sixth of the cost of track and trace which wasted £37bn. Astonishing how this government can find infinite amounts of cash for its mates, isn’t it? Thanks to all the covid deaths of over 70s, there’s an immediate £3bn saving on pensions - that would fund 6% which would probably be enough for most NHS staff.

Yes amazing how TnT, HS2, Trident ( thats £337 billion already) can all be funded without so much as a post on MN! but the moment we want improvements in pay for people who one day might save our lives..... its fuck off - we have no money!

Plus much of this 6 billion would go back into the economy, less in work benefits, more spending.

Austerity has never worked, that why the rich never apply it to themselves.

@Blossomtoes

I must admit even now I struggle to comprehend the magnitude of the £37bn spend and what the lasting infrastructural benefits were. Let's hope it created an effective and robust system that can be used for the next pandemic...

I’ve just worked mine out and I will be due to get £585 per year extra.

I think nhs deserve more than 3%, but I don't think they'll get it. I think 3% is probably the lowest they can get away without strike action tbh. High enough to look like a lot compared to private sector. But on the other hand if nhs can't get a good payrise this year after everything it'll never happen.