At what point does it become classed as abusive parenting

[dinosaursroar1]

Sorry if this is long, trying not to drip feed.

The garden that backs on to mind is a house with a family with 3 children, two primary school aged children and one is a baby who is probably about 18 months old now.

Last year every time we were out in the garden we could overhear everything being said by this family - not intentionally eavesdropping, but our gardens aren’t huge and where our paved area with seating is is right by the rear fence. There seemed to be a lot of aggressive yelling and telling offs of the children and lots of tears from the children - which felt OTT and unpleasant but I put it down to maybe the stress of lockdown and an obviously new baby so probably lack of sleep etc. There were also a number of occasions where they had music playing that had lots of swear words or inappropriate racist words - which wasn’t great as it made me feel like I couldn’t be out there with children, as I didn’t want them to overhear that, but I tried to give the benefit of the doubt and assume it was something like a Spotify playlist that the parents hasn’t listened to before putting it on for the kids and hadn’t realised the content.

But this year it’s exactly the same, if not worse. Admittedly the weather has only been good enough for the last couple of weeks to be out regularly but I’ve never heard anything from the parents to the children that isn’t said at a yell or scream. (Sometimes it’s so loud I can hear them if I’m in the house) Everything is said in a really aggressive way and there are lots of insults and threats. Just as an example, I sat out yesterday for about thirty minutes and in that time heard the children being told they were idiots, morons, fucking stupid, to “shut your stupid mouth”, “stop that or I’ll drag you inside” and more. The dad seems to be the most aggressive in terms of things that seem like almost threats of physical violence like the I’ll drag you inside comment but the mum isn’t much better and I’ve never heard her communicate with any of the children in anything other than an insult, shouting or telling them she doesn’t care and to go away. Yesterday morning she was out in the garden with the baby who was sobbing and sobbing and she was just saying shut up to them - I was still in the house so she was saying this loud enough for me to hear indoors. The baby seemed near hysterical and it was just really distressing to hear. There are also lots of comments of the “wait till your dad gets home” type to the older children said in a way that just seems really threatening in tone.

I’m so uncomfortable about this and it feels really abusive to me. I feel like I should report this but then I question myself and wonder if I’m just interfering and would anyone even care to look into this if I did report this? My gut instinct is that someone who would speak to their kids that way where they can be overheard is probably more abusive behind closed doors and the children don’t ever seem to be happy - there never seems to be just the usual kids messing about and having a nice time just lots of tears and conflict. I don’t know anyone who would talk to a child the way this couple does. I don’t know anyone who would speak to their dog the way they talk to their children.

I don’t think I’m being melodramatic (maybe I am?) This isn’t a one off. It’s any time we’re outside - from overhearing them if we’re putting the bins out to the kind of stuff I’ve mentioned above if we’re sat out in the garden. Should I just think of this as stressed out parents and keep my nose out and hope they’re not like this all the time and it’s pure coincidence that any time I hear them they’re like this? I don’t know anyone who is like this with their children (totally appreciate we all can lose our temper at times and shout or yell as a one off in a way we might look back on and regret but this is literally every single interaction I’ve ever heard).

So as not to drip feed it does seem like the mum has some issues with regards to being rational or proportionate about things - last year she became very abusive and was harassing a neighbour because their recycling bin blew over when they were on holiday and some of the contents got scattered about but she seemed unable to accept this and spent months harassing and threatening them over this - they’ve actually moved away now because of how bad it was. So knowing this makes me also think she’s probably worse behind closed doors than what I hear outside.

If I did report it would anything even happen? I feel like if I did report this as a concern social services would just turn up and because the children are clothed and fed in what is considered a “nice” area and a parent with a “good job” that they wouldn’t really be interested about the harm being caused to children by being spoken to like this. Does anyone have any experience of issues like this? Would I be unreasonable to report this?

Emotional abuse is much more difficult to evidence but you don’t needy to worry about if it meets the threshold or about what the right decision is. As a member of the public you pass all your concerns onto people who are able to collate all the info they need to made a decision if the children need support and what the beat way to deal with it is.

As they have form for being horrible neighbour’s I would suggest you do this through the NSPCC.

I would report. If you are hearing the parents being horrid to the children as you describe ‘being called idiots’ and making loose threats then that warrants making a call. You can remain anonymous if you would feel safer.

The family may be under a lot of stress and need some support but I would hate to think what it must feel like for a child to be spoken to like that by an adult.

When SS receive it they will make checks with school and other agencies and look up the family on the system for any SC involvement. If they fee there is enough evidence for an assessment than this will happen. Even if nothing happens it will be recorded as NFA. Which may not sound like much but if 6 months down the line other people become concerned it can give weight to concerns.

I would report them, personally.

Thank you - that’s really good advice. I had no idea you could raise concerns anonymously or via NSPCC which given the mums previous behaviour over minor issues with neighbours may be a good idea.

Please report it and maybe keep a diary. Those poor kids

Yeah definitely contact ss and then school if you know it, anonymously of course, do not become this woman's target..ss are so busy and overwhelmed I'd do school as well as a fail safe because they may be seeing behaviour there and they can put it into context

Definitely report. Those children are trapped there. Nspcc is a good idea.

Thanks @Lemonmelonsun - that’s kind of been one of my worries that an overloaded system just wouldn’t be able to look into something that on the surface probably doesn’t sound that bad compared to the kind of things they get referred to them.

We live almost exactly half way between two villages so would fall in the catchment area for two primary schools so no idea which one the children would be at.

@Newpuppymummy a diary is a really good idea. I feel like I’ll sound like a kind of creepy neighbour for doing it but also that I wouldn’t be taken seriously as on the surface it just sounds like me saying oh, my neighbour doesn’t talk nicely to their children whereas I feel if people heard the relentlessness of it and the tone used it would seem very different. A diary or some notes about it might help show how constant it seems to be.

Please report. Emotional abuse can be just as damaging especially as their young minds are developing and relying on adults to keep them safe mentally and emotionally. Xxx

Poor kids living with that. They sound horrendously dysfunctional. Please do report

Keep a diary but I do feel you also need to make sure nothing that's said can be traced back to you

Re school can't you get a glimpse of uniform?
Can you call both schools, they probably won't be allowed to tell you you if they go there but you might be able to say, OK, can I give you information about them as a safe guarding concern, there are two schools and I don't know which one they go too and in concern about them but don't want to give info to the wrong school.. See what they say

This is awful but I started reading the thread ready to defend a loud family (we are one even though I try not to be) but that sounds so sad. I like to hope I'd do something if I heard that

I would report to social services. Those poor kids. They’re lucky to have you looking out for them though.

We had neighbours like that once, a long time ago. I phoned the police several times, as did others, and about half a dozen of the neighbours also contacted the council. They moved away in the end, but social services were involved by that time.

Report

Poor children, that is definitely abuse.

I would report and I would also set up a camera, not facing their yard, with audio to record these incidents. Someone needs to protect those poor kids. Your entire post made me feel sick.

Please report this asap OP. By all means log future incidents but don't wait for a catalogue to contact someone.
Those poor children are definitely being abused. Sounds bloody awful.

Can you record them?

Report to the local schools and NSPCC. I’d try to get a recording if you can too

I’m a children’s social worker. You should report this. It sounds dreadful for the poor mites.

Definitely report. If this is how they behave in plain sight/hearing, then who knows what could go on behind closed doors.

And they're scumbags. I just don't buy the 'family under pressure' thing. They'd be scumbags no matter how much they had in the bank.
Some people just shouldn't have kids.

Perhaps they were under pressure last year but that behaviour seems to have been normalised, you need to step in and report. A follow up may instigate them changing their behaviour.