Piggy in the middle between dh and dd

[Hufflepuff7]

I'm finding it really hard at the moment feeling like piggy in the middle between dh and dd20. They have argued and made up for years but about a month ago they had a huge argument that resulted in pushing and shoving on both sides. Dd20 now accuses dh of abusing her even though she tried to throw a punch at him first. He defended himself by stopping her and pushing her away. She's told me I should leave him because of this and told me I'm a bad mother. She's said once she moves out she wants nothing to do with me but yet speaks to me like nothing has happened at other times.

I've been in tears and lost weight over it all. I've always been there for her and she knows it really so what she's saying hurts. She even resents me speaking to him on the phone when she's around (he works away) saying that it 'triggers' her.

She's moving out again to go back to uni but I am feeling like I'm responsible for finding a place to live and sorting everything for her. She's said to me that he should be moving out not her.

Dh is always asking when she's moving out and I feel pressure then from him because I'm trying to find her somewhere to live but it's not easy when her uni is miles away.

Dd17 says that dd20 is manipulating me and using emotional blackmail and she's probably right. Dd20 has been very spiteful for a while now and everyone seems to be 'getting it'.

I just don't know how to deal with all the animosity between them and even find myself worrying about Christmas!

I think you should step right back and remove yourself from the middle of all this; listen to your younger daughter. DD20 can sort out her own accommodation.

This must be an awful way to live, it must be awful to feel torn like this. Apart from the issues with their relationship, why are you sorting out accommodation for a 20 yr old? Surely she is old enough to do this herself. She sounds extremely immature which could be a big part of the problem.

Shouldn't she be finding accommodation with your support?

Is this her dad?

She tried to punch him???

If he had tried to punch her, you'd be showing him the door. Your younger daughter is spot on; don't allow your older daughter to use this emotional blackmail. She's out of order.

Firstly your daughter is abusive not your husband. She need anger management lessons.
Secondly she has no right to tell you to leave your husband, or that he should move out.
Thirdly, who does she think she is telling you who you can and can't speak to on the phone just because she's around.

You need to tell her straight that she's the abusive one, she threw the punch.

You need to tell her to stop with the control, she doesn't dictate your life.

Tell her whilst she's living in your house and (I'm assuming) being financially supported by you and your husband, then she's to treat all with respect.

Leave her to find her own accomodation (I bet she's happy for you to pay the deposit and first month's rent)

She's 20 and an adult, why's she acting like a 13 year old

What was the issue?
Sound like you need some family therapy.

Parents don’t sort out uni accommodation, generally. Even without this backstory!
Guiding in the background for advice maybe, but not responsible for it. Why are you?

I agree that a 20yo can sort their own accommodation - just give her a dates she needs to be put by (maybe give 6 weeks or so to be fair).

Is your dh her dad? I would be very upset about the violence from both sides. I wonder whether there is a backstory here.

Do you have any ideas why your DD hates him so much? I’m presuming he’s not her father? How long have you been together?

How odd

I have no advice but you have my sympathy as I have a dd the same age that since getting into an abusive controlling relationship a year ago is causing similar family problems. I am the bad person in her eyes dh is in your position any reasonable request I make like when she bumped the car I pay for and the insurance company wanted to speak to her about it so I suggested she came home and we did it together resulted in her tell dh I was sending her abusive messages so she wasn’t going to visit us or speak to us. I obviously showed him my polite texts. She regularly does things like this he now ignores her but it does drive a wedge between all as family and I do worry about ds 16

There's no real back story. Dd20 and Dh are very similar in that they are hot headed and stubborn. Neither will give in.

The recent argument was because dd20 has been blatantly lying a lot lately and so dh said he doubts some of the things that she said have happened to her. She claims that someone hurt her when she was 17 but doesn't want to take it further and remains friends with them. It's a long story but things just don't add up. To be fair, I doubt things a lot too but wouldn't say that to her. I want her to be able to come tell me about things in the future without feeling she may not be believed.

Dh is her biological father.

Dd20 has made me feel so guilty and responsible that I feel I'd be letting her down if i didn't help with the accommodation.

@Alfiemoon1 I feel for you too. It's horrible isn't it? Dd20 tells so many lies. She will lie to our faces even when we have the proof. She won't even tell me the full story of the argument probably because she knows she was in the wrong. She has been downright spiteful to everyone in the house, even dd17 who has had nothing to do with this recent argument. :(

You aren't doing her any favours by allowing her to get away with such disgraceful behaviour. She is not a child, she can sort out her own affairs.

@Aquamarine1029 I suppose I know that really but the guilt trips she gives me have had the desired effect. I'm slowly realising she's old enough, especially after all these comments.

I'd step right away from both of them. They are both adults.

Make it clear to your daughter she is responsible for finding her own accommodation.

They have both been violent towards each other, make it clear you won't tolerate violence in the home from anyone and if it happens again you'll be moving out on your own.

DD20 is an adult, so treat her like one and help her find a place of her own or a house share!!
She went to punch her dad, so SHE is in the wrong!
She is playing you off against one another to see who will pity her and give her whatever it is that she wants, or thinks she wants until the next thing comes along and she will start again!
Your youngest daughter is seeing it all and seems to be on a level keel, knowing what her sister is up to!
Send your daughter off to uni and tell her you'll start packing her stuff that she leaves behind as you'll be expecting her to be the adult she is and have found a permanent place to live as she obviously isn't happy at home or with things as they are!!
She can get a job for when she isn't at uni to help her pay for things.
It's about time she started acting like a 20 year old and stopped trying to get herself a criminal record for actual bodily harm!!!
Good luck.

I’ll tell you a quick story of a 20 year old DD who sounds very similar to yours.

Everything was someone else fault, quick temper, unreasonable demands, and always looked for mum to sort it out.

FF 30 years and the exact conversation I just had with my mum who wants to move to a place where she’s always wanted to live and telling me about how ugly DD has been and I said of course she is. she’s nearly 50 years old and has never been totally responsible for herself. She’s terrified and lashing out like a toddler.

This isn’t the first time the topic has come up, because I was more or less your DD17.

The only good news is that your DD17 will probably have a great relationship with your DH and be ultra responsible since she doesn’t want anything to do with the weird codependent relationship you have with your eldest daughter. The bad news is that you will probably at some point choose your older daughter over the youngest.

So in 30 years don’t get mad with the youngest when she throws it back in your face that you own the mess you perpetuated. And you realize it’s the truth and you have a superficial at best relationship with the youngest.

Ugh. Your post could have been written by my mother all those years ago.

Oh I forgot to mention I was the one who ‘abused my sister’ according to everyone she could tell I tried to throw her down the stairs. Of course the bits she leaves out is the fact that I she had just got done telling me that I ruined her life by having a job, she insulted my husband, and she threw a large object at my cat. After all that I will admit to launching her bag down the steps and telling her to leave my home, after which she attacked my physically.

Apparently I should have just let all that happen in her mind. She failed to consider that I would physically stand up for my family. And was was subdued until she walked (thank you very much) down the stairs to leave my house.

That was more or less the beginning of the end of my relationship with my mum. I never asked her to choose between us, but she ultimately did. We (mum and I) are now just starting to talk after about 10 years. I’ll never have any type of relationship with my sister as she has gotten worse over the years.

I have a good idea of what you are dealing with. Trust me when I say now is the time to change course.

Your daughter definitely needs some tough love, for herself and for the good of the whole family, it doesn't sound like she would be the least bothered if she split the family up. Hugs to you and your husband and younger daughter

Stand up for your younger daughter, don’t let her have to live in this environment, she deserves better.

Your older daughter is abusive and you are perpetuating and condoning it by going along with her manipulations.

What if she targets you or your younger daughter next with her manipulations, violence and lies?

She is 20, not a child anymore. Protect your other child and let the older one find out how far lies, abuse and manipulation go in the real world without Mum to bail her out or respond to her commands.

Your younger daughter sounds much more sensible than your elder daughter

Why can't you tell both your dh and dd20 that you are not getting involved any more. You cannot take the stress any longer and this is unfair on your other daughter then just put your foot down

I know it must be uncomfortable living in the house around it, but you need to take care of yourself or you will end up so ill
And no one seems to notice what this is doing to you or care about what this is doing to you and dd17 during the dramatics. So selfish

OP it's obviously easier said than done to leave DD20 to it, she's your child after all, even if she is behaving atrociously. I'd be interested in why she's telling all these lies, is so aggressive, has this victim mentality etc. I also completely get dreading Christmas as a foreseeable hotspot on the horizon - it's so binary, you either all spend it together (fireworks) or you don't (which probably feels pretty seismic, assuming you always have previously).

Two things you might want to think about. First, counselling. Is DD getting it or can she through uni? Can you support her in that by attending a session (also to put another point of view)? Also consider family therapy for all four of you. Could be done by Zoom. Reasonable to say to the others that you are in the middle and you all need to find a way to co-exist peacefully even if "recollections may vary".

Secondly, see if family therapy a goer, but start to make back up Christmas plans by about October so it doesn't loom ahead darkly for you for months and months. No point trying to do what you normally do if that means the four of you sitting round a table, pressure cooker-style, perhaps booze being taken etc. So give some thought to how you can change it up. Will everyone be on better behaviour if non family are there? (Thinking someone you can confide in, who has your back eg inviting best friend and family). Or do you need to be out of the house to increase the chance of harmony? If so perhaps you could sign the four of you up to volunteer on Christmas Day? In normal years, those opportunities are full months before Christmas, no harm in putting your names down now.

She's 20. Being pushed away after trying to punch someone is not the same when you're 20. As you and DH age the dynamics change and soon the power imbalance will be in her favour. She's talking bollocks and if I were you I'd stay out of it.

What’s your marriage like aside from the toes between your husband and daughter?