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Original poster

Piggy in the middle between dh and dd

52 replies

Hufflepuff7 · 18/07/2021 21:45

I'm finding it really hard at the moment feeling like piggy in the middle between dh and dd20. They have argued and made up for years but about a month ago they had a huge argument that resulted in pushing and shoving on both sides. Dd20 now accuses dh of abusing her even though she tried to throw a punch at him first. He defended himself by stopping her and pushing her away. She's told me I should leave him because of this and told me I'm a bad mother. She's said once she moves out she wants nothing to do with me but yet speaks to me like nothing has happened at other times.

I've been in tears and lost weight over it all. I've always been there for her and she knows it really so what she's saying hurts. She even resents me speaking to him on the phone when she's around (he works away) saying that it 'triggers' her.

She's moving out again to go back to uni but I am feeling like I'm responsible for finding a place to live and sorting everything for her. She's said to me that he should be moving out not her.

Dh is always asking when she's moving out and I feel pressure then from him because I'm trying to find her somewhere to live but it's not easy when her uni is miles away.

Dd17 says that dd20 is manipulating me and using emotional blackmail and she's probably right. Dd20 has been very spiteful for a while now and everyone seems to be 'getting it'.

I just don't know how to deal with all the animosity between them and even find myself worrying about Christmas!

OP posts:
FreeBritnee · 19/07/2021 08:31

*rows

Conchitastrawberry · 19/07/2021 08:34

She tried to punch her dad? Honestly it sounds like she needs to find her own place. There is no way on earth I’d tolerate that.

Original poster
Hufflepuff7 · 19/07/2021 08:47

Thanks everyone for your advice and for sharing your own personal experiences.

@Elbie79 dd20 has sought counselling and recieved some. Not sure how truthful she is being with them though! Doubt she would allow me in a session.
I have thought about family counselling but dd20 probably won't do it right now since she claims she never wants to see dh again.
@saltinesandcoffeecups I'm so sorry that happened to you. Dd17 and I are very close and I have already had to stick up for her a few times over the last month. I don't think it will turn out the same as your situation because I'm becoming more aware each time dd20 tries manipulating me.
@sunnymoo dd20 would love to see dh and I split. I've already told her if that happened she'd be away at uni and it wouldn't affect her anyway. Dd17 and I would be left to deal with the upset.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hufflepuff7 · 19/07/2021 08:58

@FreeBritnee our marriage is good. Obviously we've had though times but we love each other. We've been together for 26 years. About 10 years ago he suffered a mental breakdown from being racially targeted at work for years. He left there but wasn't 'right' until about a year and a half ago. It was difficult for all of us, I'm not going to lie.

Before dd20 started becoming who she is now, even at the beginning of this year, she was praising him on becoming so much better and being proud of him for seeking counselling. She said she understood why I stayed with him even though he could be very moody while he was ill. This is partly why I don't understand her huge turn around now and making out he was being abusive when she was supporting him before.

OP posts:
Hankunamatata · 19/07/2021 09:00

Why dont you do family counselling invite dd20. If she doesn't come then go ahead with you, dh and dd17.

Original poster
Hufflepuff7 · 19/07/2021 09:03

That's a good idea @Hankunamatata
I think I'll suggest that. At least dd20 can't say she's been left out if she's had the choice to join.

OP posts:
Hankunamatata · 19/07/2021 09:04

Only thing I'd say that whatever happend to her at 17, please chose to believe her. You dont have to lay on the sympathy or let her live at home. Just you and dh tell her that you believe her about that incident but explain that's totally separate issue to how she is behaving now

Hankunamatata · 19/07/2021 09:09

So she has been lying about lots of things. Was her argument with dh about that he thinks she is lying about what happened to her at 17?

Original poster
Hufflepuff7 · 19/07/2021 09:11

Totally agree. I've told her I believe her even though I've had my doubts. I would never tell her that.

OP posts:
Hankunamatata · 19/07/2021 09:12

OP I'd consider counselling just for yourself to help upu deal with your feelings of guilt around dd20.

Original poster
Hufflepuff7 · 19/07/2021 09:14

Partly yes. She also says he was a father figure to her boyfriend but then let him down somehow and she's angry about that. Just for context, she's only been seeing this boyfriend for about 8 months and he landed himself in jail about 3 months ago. I think dh was obviously disappointed and saying dd20 should be looking for better.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hufflepuff7 · 19/07/2021 09:15

@Hankunamatata you're so right. You give very good advice :)

OP posts:
Hankunamatata · 19/07/2021 09:26

Let her find her own place to live though. Ypi can believe her and be sympathetic but calmly tell her she cant live at home attacking her father and making everyone's lives miserable.

AuntMargo · 19/07/2021 09:39

You need to stand up to this manipulator, she is clearly a very selfish woman. What you need to do is call her bluff, tell her not to wait till she goes to uni, tell her to go now. She sounds disrespectful and a nasty piece of work and you are just allowing her to be. Stand up to her !

Original poster
Hufflepuff7 · 19/07/2021 09:49

I don't understand how I have brought up the two of them exactly the same way and they are so different. Dd17 understands why dh's behaviour was so up and down while he was ill and now they have a good relationship.
Dd20 on the other hand blames everything on dh's moods while he was ill and me for staying with him.
It's heartbreaking.

OP posts:
IAmAWomanNotACis · 19/07/2021 10:43

Your 20 year old seems to live for the drama doesn't she Sad

Did you witness the incident with her dad? If you're certain she punched him and he pushed her away from himself in self defence, then I don't understand why you feel like piggy in the middle. She assaulted her dad; he sounds like he used minimal possible force and action to defend himself against aggressive physical assault. I can't see any ambiguity there.

From the age of 18 I sorted out my own accommodation for uni. If I were you I'd tell her ENOUGH of the nonsense about her dad assaulting her, and as she is a young woman not a child now she need to a) sort out her own university accommodation (with a side note that you are happy to provide assistance for as long as she is being polite and pleasant) and either abide by house rules of being pleasant and reasonable in her interactions with everybody in the home no exceptions, or find and fund somewhere else to live more permanently.

As an aside, do you think she has a mental health condition that is causing her behaviour, or is she just being a manipulative madam?

saltinesandcoffeecups · 19/07/2021 12:45

@Hufflepuff7

Thanks everyone for your advice and for sharing your own personal experiences. *@Elbie79* dd20 has sought counselling and recieved some. Not sure how truthful she is being with them though! Doubt she would allow me in a session. I have thought about family counselling but dd20 probably won't do it right now since she claims she never wants to see dh again. *@saltinesandcoffeecups* I'm so sorry that happened to you. Dd17 and I are very close and I have already had to stick up for her a few times over the last month. I don't think it will turn out the same as your situation because I'm becoming more aware each time dd20 tries manipulating me. *@sunnymoo* dd20 would love to see dh and I split. I've already told her if that happened she'd be away at uni and it wouldn't affect her anyway. Dd17 and I would be left to deal with the upset.
I hope for DD17’s sake you are right, but if I’m honest I don’t think you are properly seeing things how they really are. If I had to guess the resentment is already there and your oldest is driving the wedge a little at at a time.

Let me guess your youngest is the responsible one? The sensible one? The one that gets on with things and sorts herself out? The one that you don’t have to worry about? Meanwhile all of your attention is going toward the eldest and the drama? You do know that doesn’t stop, right? You know that your youngest is already writing off the support you are capable of giving her. It won’t be tomorrow that the relationship breaks down or even in the next couple of years.

My mum would have said the same thing as you about our relationship at that point in time. Here’s the thing… it’s going to eventually come to the point that easier for you to not stick up for the youngest because of the fallout and guilt from the oldest.

I really do hope you find the way, because this situation does not fix itself with time, it only gets worse.

Ponoka7 · 19/07/2021 13:13

So one of your DD's was seven and the other one ten when your DH checked out? They are going to have experienced it differently. The lying could be a way of getting your DH'S attention, but he's chose to not believe her. She might just have wanted validation. She needs help. If you didn't get her that support through her early teens, then she will feel let down. I think that she doesn't want you to split as much as she wants you to show that you can put her first. How bad has it been growing up with a distant father, for her, do you think, do you talk about it?

Cocomarine · 19/07/2021 13:26

@Hufflepuff7

I don't understand how I have brought up the two of them exactly the same way and they are so different. Dd17 understands why dh's behaviour was so up and down while he was ill and now they have a good relationship. Dd20 on the other hand blames everything on dh's moods while he was ill and me for staying with him. It's heartbreaking.
That’s just silly. You know your girls aren’t clones and you know they didn’t spend 20 and 17 years in a bubble. Wouldn’t it have been more strange if they were the same?

Did they walk at the same age?
Share the same first word?
Get the same grade on every test?

They’re individuals with individual experiences.

My dad had a breakdown - was sectioned briefly, then off work for 18 months - when I was 13.

Each of his 6 children experienced it differently at the time and feel the affect years after differently too.

The youngest just accepted daddy was poorly so a bit shouty and not to mind him. No impact until he ruined her chance at her dream career because of the aftermath of his issues. The middle has been fine long term, but spent hours of teenage life frightened and guilty because she didn’t know how to help her daddy and was old enough to want to.

You need to drop your attitude of “well I brought them up OK cos look at the 17yo, so it’s not my fault” and actually consider both have had different experiences that are equally valid.

MichelleScarn · 19/07/2021 13:37

You need to drop your attitude of “well I brought them up OK cos look at the 17yo, so it’s not my fault” and actually consider both have had different experiences that are equally valid.

She doesn't need to "drop the attitude" of its not her fault though? Because why would the 20yos rather unpleasant behaviour be OPs 'fault?

user27424799642256 · 19/07/2021 13:48

She claims that someone hurt her when she was 17 but doesn't want to take it further and remains friends with them. It's a long story but things just don't add up.

So someone abused her and when she confided in her parents they both turned around and called her a liar based on ignorance and stereotypes of how a victim should respond to trauma. Nice. Shock

That's pretty hefty context to leave out of your op and then hide in a chunk of text, almost like you're trying to manipulate people into agreeing with you... hmm.

I think that's appalling on the part of the two of you and can understand why it's led to this. It turns my stomach when parents fail their children like that and then demonise the child to soothe their conscience.

Shocking. I feel very sorry for your daughter.

user27424799642256 · 19/07/2021 13:50

@MichelleScarn

You need to drop your attitude of “well I brought them up OK cos look at the 17yo, so it’s not my fault” and actually consider both have had different experiences that are equally valid.

She doesn't need to "drop the attitude" of its not her fault though? Because why would the 20yos rather unpleasant behaviour be OPs 'fault?

Maybe you should read the op's posts properly. There's a hell of a lot to lay at her door frankly. Putting it mildly.
Cocomarine · 19/07/2021 14:21

@MichelleScarn

You need to drop your attitude of “well I brought them up OK cos look at the 17yo, so it’s not my fault” and actually consider both have had different experiences that are equally valid.

She doesn't need to "drop the attitude" of its not her fault though? Because why would the 20yos rather unpleasant behaviour be OPs 'fault?

Well, it very like isn’t the OP’s “fault”.

But the 20yo is angry with her mother and one of the reasons she’s giving is because her mother didn’t leave her father after his breakdown. Of course, surely that was right to stay? But the OP said herself that it was a difficult time for them all.

Without wanting to project, just to explain one example of a “difficult” time after a breakdown - my father bruised my badly about 10x in the year after his, and scared me many more.

OP says that her daughter even previously said that she understood. But - it’s OK to “understand” when you’re a child or young adult and then realise that actually no, you’ve changed your mind. You don’t understand. Or you do understand why it happened - but now think he should have stayed away. It’s OK for a teen / young adult to have feelings that are mixed, confusing and changing.

I’m not saying that the OP is at fault. But I really do think that she needs to change her attitude of not knowing why the older daughter is like this when the younger one isn’t. That’s the wrong attitude: to expect them to be the same and (it seems to me) discounting the older one’s position because the younger one doesn’t feel the same.

OP needs to LISTEN and not assume her older child is wrong to feel this way when the younger one doesn’t - which is convenient as the way the younger one feels is easier for the OP.

It’s not OP’s fault her husband had a breakdown. She may have had no choice but to support her husband through it all in the family home - I don’t think that my own mother had much choice, practically or economically. But she shouldn’t discount the impact it may have had on the oldest, just because the youngest is - surprise! - not a clone of her sister.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 19/07/2021 14:29

Dd20 has made me feel so guilty and responsible that I feel I'd be letting her down if i didn't help with the accommodation

Dd17 says that dd20 is manipulating me and using emotional blackmail

Sounds to me as though DD17 has hit the nail on the head. You need to step back and ask DD20 to sort out her own accommodation. She's 20! You're not helping her independence (or your own mental health) by bending over backwards for her all the time.

Could you arrange some family counselling to try and get to the bottom of why she's so angry?

Looubylou · 19/07/2021 16:02

DD20's behaviour is unacceptable, however, the potential impact of a parent experiencing significant MH problems, can not be underestimated. Her experience and memories may be very different to those of DD17. For example, having a younger sibling and and ill father, may have left some of her needs overlooked. 10 year olds can be emotionally very different to 7 year olds, have a different level of understanging and different needs. I imagine OP was trying to be everything to everyone - an impossible task.