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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU To ask if the term Mixed-Race is outdated

466 replies

CambridgeEntry2022 · 18/07/2021 00:42

I don't want to cause offence by using outdated terms. Would it be more appropriate to use the term multi racial?

OP posts:
LizzieW1969 · 18/07/2021 12:22

My black dh dislikes the term and I can understand why. It basically lumps everyone who isn't white British together...so you're either white British or bame thus the only people who have a strong identity when divided in this way are the white British people...it feels like the bame just means not white British, which is not a positive affirmation of identity. Does that make sense?

Yes it does, although I would go further and say that it refers to anyone who isn’t white. I don’t think that white Europeans have ever been referred to as BAME?

ZaZathecat · 18/07/2021 12:31

It seems that the term 'race' in 'mixed race' is seen, by whoever decides these things, to be offensive, perhaps because it is dividing people by their colour.

However, until there is no racism, I don't see how we can or should avoid the term 'race'.

ohfook · 18/07/2021 12:34

@Teabag55

I find it safer to never utter words any more. I really don't want to offend anyone or get into an argument about what's right or wrong. Even on this thread people are arguing about it so it's not as if there is any one description that's correct. I've realised that over time I have become almost mute in real life. I think a lot, but most of it doesn't get said. It started out as a habit, but it's got to the point where I find it quite hard to speak at all. I mean about everything, not solely about racial heritage.
I think that says more about you than the situation. There's nothing wrong with being corrected. Saying a term and having someone say actually I prefer it if you use X instead isn't the end of the world.
GreyhoundG1rl · 18/07/2021 12:39

Saying a term and having someone say actually I prefer it if you use X instead isn't the end of the world.
It wouldn't be if you could be sure that the reaction you got would always be that mild.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 18/07/2021 12:46

I don’t really mandated terms and where possible use the term the individual chooses (if it is ever relevant to use it at all). I am white British with an Irish parent so dual nationality/ heritage but mono racial. DH is North African mono nationality, race and heritage (some North Africans eg Berbers may regard themselves as having more than one heritage). We have two different religions & languages. My DC are entitled to 3 different passports.
The term dual heritage doesn’t work for my DC as they have 3 different heritages. On forms they often have to tick mixed other as Arab isn’t always included as an option.
BAME is such a catch all that it doesn’t really seem to mean much other than can’t tick the white box.
For my DC some variation on mixed seems to be the best option whether it’s mixed race or mixed heritage.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 18/07/2021 12:47

don’t really like

BiBabbles · 18/07/2021 13:03

I wouldn't say it's outdated when many people use it for ourselves, but there are always going to be limits with these sorts of terms.

Mixed or multiracial is fine as a general population level term with the understanding that it is limited, but individuals can obviously have their own feelings and preferred terms. I use mixed (or Mixed Other on forms) or Mestizo.

I did diversity training recently and the said we should never use mixed race - a complete no no We were told person of colour, diverse racial or enriched racial background.

I would have found that a very difficult diversity training to sit through. Enriched and Diverse feels really patronising. FFS, we're not flour.
What about those of us who are mixed race in part because one of our ancestors was raped? Not something I'd want to call 'enriching' or 'diverse'.

Person of Color originated in the States as a political term of solidarity - people of different races who came together to fight for civil rights. Applying to everyone who looks a certain way has largely stripped the political significance of that term (some argue intentionally) and also has been an issue when certain nationalities are painted as 'PoC' when the nation themselves have people of all colours.

And of course, there are mixed race people that others read as White some or all of the time, some identify as White because of that or just personal preference. That training really oversimplifies being mixed, it kinda feels like they view it as a bad thing that needs to be semantically made better rather than just a neutral concept. I describe how I talk as a 'mixed accent' because that's what it is, it isn't any better or worse, it's just a mix of multiple dialects.

I'm Metis on my mother's side, Mestizo on my father's. Both of those terms just mean mixed but - unlike most colonial racial terms - they'e developed to have their own meanings and cultures differing by group mixes and location. I've identified as mixed, Metis, and Mestizo over the years for various reasons, though I mostly use Mestizo now partially because there is a long tradition of standing up against blood quantum and just the concepts that are kinda baked into things like Dual Heritage or Half Caste where our ratio matter when more often than not, it's been used by powers to divide and reduce us. I am not the ratios of people before me. I don't expect Brits to know that term or to identify me as such by looking at me - part of many Mestizo cultural ideas is how we look like all sorts - but I do use it when it comes up.

BAME - it's better than PoC to me for population level discussions when its understood that it's oversimplified and nearly always needs to be divided down more if we're actually to understand (and I tend to use the Black, Asian, & Marginalized Ethnicities over minority because that tends to be more the issue). Like LGBT, I don't like it being used on individuals - I am bisexual not LGBT, I am Mestizo not BAME, but reading the area I live in described as having a "growing BAME population" doesn't bother me when it's a starting point before moving into or discussing the need for more details. It gets iffy when it's treated as a shield/tickbox like the government or a company having 'BAME representation' like that means something.

I think the Americans say bi-racial and think that mixed-race is offensive even though logically, the words have the same meaning (except that 'bi' is limiting it to just two, so if you correct somebody who said mixed race and insist that bi racial is the word now it makes an assumption)

I never heard biracial or dual heritage used until I lived in the UK. I'm sure it's used in the States, but it's likely more a regional thing (likely the West Coast and/or New York coastal which tends to be where this type of stuff that then comes over tends to be rooted in) rather than an American thing.

FlaminEckVera · 18/07/2021 13:05

@CambridgeEntry2022 YABU!

Getting a bit sick of this to be honest.

Everything we get used to, and are told we MUST say, is suddenly outdated and offensive. Hmm FFS, how about people just say what they want, (within reason) and people stop getting offended at naff-all, all the time?!

Funnylittlefloozie · 18/07/2021 13:07

@Ursulasunderstudy

You need to use Dual Heritage not mixed race.
Oh god, please don't. I am white and Asian, and if you must refer to me in those terms, I prefer mixed-race. "Dual heritage " is twee, inner-London primary school guff, and makes my toes curl.
spittycup · 18/07/2021 13:33

[quote FlaminEckVera]@CambridgeEntry2022 YABU!

Getting a bit sick of this to be honest.

Everything we get used to, and are told we MUST say, is suddenly outdated and offensive. Hmm FFS, how about people just say what they want, (within reason) and people stop getting offended at naff-all, all the time?![/quote]
Is it really so hard to just say mixed? Don't get why people are so desperate to use other terms.

Like, I get that sometimes people are just offended at everything, but I don't think asking to be called mixed is a big ask. What would your preferred term for me be?

SerendipityJane · 18/07/2021 13:42

What would your preferred term for me be?

Surely, in this context, you are a "Mumsnetter" ?

FlaminEckVera · 18/07/2021 13:45

@SerendipityJane

What would your preferred term for me be?

Surely, in this context, you are a "Mumsnetter" ?

Grin
magsbagsfags · 18/07/2021 13:53

@eachtigertires

Are heritage and race not different things though? I would say my daughter is mixed heritage but she isn’t mixed race. Heritage meaning cultural background and race mostly referring to the way a person looks? Please correct me if I’m wrong though, this is my current understanding.
This was my understanding too - so you could be white Welsh and French and be dual heritage no? Or White Irish and Spanish....
Runningupthecurtains · 18/07/2021 13:59

Is it really so hard to just say mixed?
It lots of circumstances no but in others just mixed doesn't indicate what is mixed it could be sex (the children attend a mixed school), ethnicity (the study was to see impact of X on mixed race children), religion (there is a drive in Y place to ensure all schools are mixed, rather than church schools) or even used in place of blended to describe a step family. Clear language is important - if you can't define the people that are disadvantaged/privileged, at greater/less risk, in need of a service than how can you supply that service.

SourAppleChew · 18/07/2021 14:00

The correct term is 'person of size'. I shit you not.

Wow. You learn something every day.

GreyhoundG1rl · 18/07/2021 14:02

The correct term is 'person of size'. I shit you not.
Says who?!

spittycup · 18/07/2021 14:02

@Runningupthecurtains

Is it really so hard to just say mixed? It lots of circumstances no but in others just mixed doesn't indicate what is mixed it could be sex (the children attend a mixed school), ethnicity (the study was to see impact of X on mixed race children), religion (there is a drive in Y place to ensure all schools are mixed, rather than church schools) or even used in place of blended to describe a step family. Clear language is important - if you can't define the people that are disadvantaged/privileged, at greater/less risk, in need of a service than how can you supply that service.
I mean... it's a thread about race so I mean racially mixed. My point is the mixed race people on this thread aren't moaning or being PC by asking to be called mixed. It's the most common phrase used, so just use it
Crowsaregreat · 18/07/2021 14:02

I'm pretty sure that new terms are created by academics. Race as a concept exists but the boundaries are blurred (you can't exactly draw lines on a map and say Asians here, black people here, white people here). So saying mixed race avoids the reality that all humans are basically different parts of a big melting pot.

There are plenty of racial terms that used to be acceptable and inoffensive but the association became offensive over time. Maybe mixed race will be the same eventually?

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 18/07/2021 14:03

@SourAppleChew

The correct term is 'person of size'. I shit you not.

Wow. You learn something every day.

Correct according to American post modernist vernacular influenced by obesity denial and health at every size ideology. Not correct according to anyone of sense.
SourAppleChew · 18/07/2021 14:06

I prefer 'person of considerable size'.

Runningupthecurtains · 18/07/2021 14:09

it's a thread about race so I mean racially mixed
Which is why I said in lots of circumstances no but just mixed on its own doesn't work in some contexts - mixed age, mixed ability, mixed sex are all mixes and in some circumstances mixed race needs the qualifier of race to clarify what is mixed.

GreyhoundG1rl · 18/07/2021 14:10

@SourAppleChew

I prefer 'person of considerable size'.
Well, yes, of course. We're all some bloody size, the inherent insult in "person of size" is hardly less offensive than "overweight". It's a hoot the way some people think forbidding free use of language actually controls the way people think.
SerendipityJane · 18/07/2021 14:18

We're all some bloody size, the inherent insult in "person of size" is hardly less offensive than "overweight".

We are also all some sort of color ... so wtf does "person of color" mean ? Apart from a person of that color ?

Smokeyrobinson · 18/07/2021 14:20

We have always described our daughter and grandchildren as mixed race; as she does herself.