AIBU To ask if the term Mixed-Race is outdated

[CambridgeEntry2022]

I don't want to cause offence by using outdated terms. Would it be more appropriate to use the term multi racial?

What is there about saying that saying that I am a Celt that implies that race does not exist?

But race, as a scientific concept, definitely does not exist. It's a concept that exists in the minds of racists, but is that a good reason to cling to the idea?

People have their heritage and a reality they have to face. My gdg has a heritage of very recent ancestors who were slaves and the reality that if we were to take her to the UK she would be the victim of racism. But she is only a different race from me in the minds of racists. She is my flesh and blood.

@Coyoacan So "race" for @CutePanda and @Freecuthbert is purely a matter of the colour on one's skin?

As I am half white and half East Asian, I have fair skin. So your comment is incorrect. Race is based on other features, not skin colour. Asians are not the same race as white people. Do you honestly look at an East Asian, central Asian, black African, Native American etc… and think they’re white?

You obviously have a weird complex about being fully white and your desire to be mixed race is really odd. Why are you not happy in your own skin? You are welsh and Irish. That means you are white European. Sorry to burst your bubble.

It’s weird that we have race imposed upon us.

The post about people being told they are a different race to their children really makes me think differently. It is true that they are flesh and blood, yet we are trying to impose an arbitrary divide between them.

This has got nothing to do with you being a Celt. It is about you being dismissive of those who have lived experiences of being mixed race by shrugging and saying, well everyone is mixed race. And you clutching your pearls at the term "white" and saying such a term belongs to a racist world. But race does exist, as a social concept, and sadly we do live in a racist world. And we need words to acknowledge diversity and address racism. You are white and apparently in denial for some reason, and think it is the slave trade's fault we have the word "white" (why the fuck are white people suddenly the victim of the slave trade in this narrative!?), you want to erase all mention of race while other people's realities are marred by racism. Don't you realise how much your posts are dripping in white privilege for you to come out with this crap?

I also thought the idea of white people came from the slave trade, although the only book I have read on it is the Nell Irvin Painter one.

@Freecuthbert THANK YOU for your latest post. @Coyoacan has no idea what it’s like to be mixed race. We should never say “we are all one race” or “we don’t see colour” etc because that’s dismissing the struggles of people who are mixed race or those who are not the same race as the majority in the country they live in. We need to celebrate different races and diversity, not ignore it.

You obviously have a weird complex about being fully white and your desire to be mixed race is really odd. Why are you not happy in your own skin? You are welsh and Irish. That means you are white European. Sorry to burst your bubble

How on earth do you get that I am Welsh and want to be mixed race? I am not denying the existence of racism or do I want to be the victim racism. So either I am very bad at explaining myself or you are an idiot

@SJaneS49

Really pedantic of me *@FlyingBattie* but again, but ‘slave trade’ doesn’t just refer to the Atlantic Slave trade of the 17th/18th centuries. Slavery in the British Isles pre dates the Roman period. The Romans themselves operated a very global trade in slaves. Many of those people of other ethnicities living in Britain over a thousand years before the Atlantic Slave Trade you are referring to would have been slaves.

(Again, sorry! And I totally agree that we don’t know how these people referred to each other).

Oh thank you- that's really interesting to know!

[quote CutePanda]**@Freecuthbert* THANK YOU for your latest post. @Coyoacan* has no idea what it’s like to be mixed race. We should never say “we are all one race” or “we don’t see colour” etc because that’s dismissing the struggles of people who are mixed race or those who are not the same race as the majority in the country they live in. We need to celebrate different races and diversity, not ignore it.[/quote]
"I don't see colour" is particularly weird. Of course people do. None of us are blind. It's obviously one of the first things we notice about people.

Does it matter? Of course not, to most rational people. But we have to acknowledge that people with darker and lighter skin than us exist. It's just genetics, like the fact that some have red hair and some have green eyes.

"I don't see colour" also implies that they don't see institutional racism.

My daughter has white skin but she is most certainly not white

Having grown up with close family members who are red haired, I can say that it's not plain sailing. Children in particular can be awkward, and then, as I mentioned, there is the issue of physiological differences (not only limited to hair and skin colour), that can sometimes be a struggle (the majority of the medical profession have no clue as so little research is done on such a small group worldwide).

I can see what you are trying to say, and also ancientgran has put it well. But (in my opinion) telling this to a child whose skin will always be very pale, may be confusing and might add an extra layer of complexity for someone so young to comprehend and contend with. People will see what they see, and it's perhaps giving them a dual opportunity to 'other' her? Maybe try and explain it to her differently, in a way that is more nuanced?

I don't know what the answer is, but it seems that you want to do the best for your child

"I don't see colour" is particularly weird. Of course people do. None of us are blind. It's obviously one of the first things we notice about people.

No-one on this thread has said that they don't see colour.

Why does it have to be “mixed race?” Why not celebrate our diversity by saying what we are, for example:

Afro-Germanic

Anglo-Carribean

Hiberno-Indian

Welsh-Lebanese

Sino-Irish

For example?

@Coyoacan

"I don't see colour" is particularly weird. Of course people do. None of us are blind. It's obviously one of the first things we notice about people.

No-one on this thread has said that they don't see colour.

Quite. I was replying to a poster who brought it up as something that is said.

I can see what you are trying to say, and also ancientgran has put it well. But (in my opinion) telling this to a child whose skin will always be very pale, may be confusing and might add an extra layer of complexity for someone so young to comprehend and contend with. People will see what they see, and it's perhaps giving them a dual opportunity to 'other' her? Maybe try and explain it to her differently, in a way that is more nuanced?

In the kindest way possible, how is this any of your business?
I only mentioned my daughter's race to you because you were in disbelief at another poster having mixed race children with red hair. I just wanted to let you know that it is very much possible, which you seemed convinced it's not. And now I am at risk of "othering" her? I was only making you aware of the facts, and now this has turned into a debate about how I have these difficult conversations with a fucking 6 month old.

@Freecuthbert, I think children work it out for themselves. My DD1 is white ‘passing’ as she refers to it. Her half siblings (with 2 ex White European stepmothers) are quite obviously mixed race. She’s close to her half brother and his experience of racism is completely different to her. She would I’m sure completely agree with the ‘I’m white but I’m not comment’. It’s a bit of a weird position to be in I think. Certainly people clocking her with her half Trini Dad when she was growing up (she looks the spit of him facially) would come out with some daft ‘oh I’ve just realised ..’ comments.

@mustlovegin I can see what you are trying to say, and also ancientgran has put it well. But (in my opinion) telling this to a child whose skin will always be very pale, may be confusing and might add an extra layer of complexity for someone so young to comprehend and contend with. People will see what they see, and it's perhaps giving them a dual opportunity to 'other' her?

If @Freecuthbert Dd mixed race then I assume that the girl’s mum and dad are different races? Surely people would put two and two together and realise that her Dd is mixed race despite her red hair and pale skin? Remember those mixed race twins where one looked mixed but the other had red hair and pale skin like her mum?

@CutePanda, ‘surely people would put two and two together’, well not always. My ex SIL’s children look very different. When she was out with her very white European looking eldest, more than one person assumed she had to be their nanny.

See this is why the term is pointless for discribing someone! On a form OK tick that box but then surely you would put which races are in you because it's relevant for the form maybe?
But if I said that boy over there is mixed race! All it does is point out he has darker skin or looks different to me and there are plenty of white mixed race people so I would not refer to them as that because I wouldn't know unless I knew them

It's not about ignoring colour it's about not assuming things that we know nothing about
There are also diseases that make skin go lighter so someone could be black but people think they are mixed race but they are not!
There's too many variations of human to lump into 3 categories back white or mixed

[quote SJaneS49]@CutePanda, ‘surely people would put two and two together’, well not always. My ex SIL’s children look very different. When she was out with her very white European looking eldest, more than one person assumed she had to be their nanny.[/quote]
I hadn't thought about it but that has happened to my DIL.

My mixed race family prefer to call themselves mixed race so that's what we use.

I'm dual heritage and I'm white so I can't see how that would work.

@Secondbellini

Caucasian hasn’t been used in the U.K. for a very long time. It is a racist term like Mongoloid.

I am nearly fifty and have never seen any form that used Caucasian.

Most people whose ancestors have been in the British isles for more than a few generations have ancient British DNA, predating the Iron Age Celts. There are a few areas like Norfolk where you get a higher amount of other European DNA, but in general DNA is still Ancient British.

There are of course other DNA traces- North African Roman troops in North East England, Vikings in Dublin, but many invasions led to more cultural changes than big population changes. A bit like the British invaded India but the vast majority of Indian people are not now of British descent.

Caucasian isn’t racist or outdated, why are you making it about quite people??

Mixed race is fine.

Caucasian, and all the terms related to it, like Negroid, are racist.

They were all based on a disproven scientific racism from the 18th where scientists used the skulls of slaves to divide people into groups.

The original Caucasian was a teenage girl who died of syphillis while kept in sexual slavery.

RonaldMcDonald
I did diversity training recently and they said we should never use mixed race - a complete no no
We were told person of colour, diverse racial or enriched racial background

Interesting. What's an "Enriched racial background" as opposed to a "non-Enriched racial background?"

Notwithstanding I think whoever came up with all this was taking the P (I can't imagine referring to someone as "diverse racial" wouldnt come across well), I am quite interested to know.

DP is mixed race, my nephews are mixed race. I never hear them refer to themselves as bi-racial. I heard bi-racial a lot when I was in America. Not so much in UK but as usual there's a rush to pick up Americanisms isn't there?

I’m British and Caribbean. Mixed race, dual heritage, doesn’t bother me OP 😊

I did diversity training recently and they said we should never use mixed race - a complete no no. We were told person of colour, diverse racial or enriched racial background

😆 Did they ask any mixed race people though or just invent this rule themselves?