To think if you are that short of staff you should employ 15year olds?

[SunsetandCupcakes]

I'm not that old, still old but in the v late 90s I had a job in the kitchens, my brother had a job selling ice creams at 14.
Catering near me is struggling to fill vacancies, it's the summer in a holiday town, two kiosks have had to close as no staff and yet my 15 year old isn't allowed to work.
How can working be more detrimental than sat at home on the PS4, we've ended up with a funny view on teenagers

I was waitressing at 14! Yanbu

I was a 15 year old in 1975 working two half days every weekend in a paper shop. Just another member of shop staff, stocking shelves, dealing with customers, using the till and handling cash. Interesting how people's views of older teens has changed.

And this is exactly why the tories will always be in power. They've totally skewed people's perception of normality. A lot of hospitality venues are struggling to hire at the moment, in fact a lot of low paid jobs are struggling to recruit. Not because people don't want to work but because people don't want to work for poverty wages. So instead of suggesting that these companies up their pay; you look at other avenues of exploitation i.e. employ a 15yr old.

We take them from 16..... non food retail. It's hard work!!

Being short staffed would make you shorter the amount of work that goes in. And the mobile phone usage is off the scale!

@properg

It's harder to exploit kids now hence why they are unattractive. I kinda think that's a good thing.

Why do we have to exploit kids? Less than a 100years ago 15years Old were signing up to fight. Whilst I'm not encouraging this I struggle to see how serving ice cream is similar

Many local authorities have a blanket ban on children working in commercial kitchens of any sort.
The law allows over 14s to work in hospitality and shops (with very limited hours) but not in any sort of kitchen area. It’s about twelve hours they can work in any school week, with limits of 2 hours on a Sunday and five on a Saturday with an hours break. Employers need a permit.

Then there is H&S legislation around hazardous work, using machinery and liabilities. Letting a child use a barista machine in a busy cafe is a negligence claim waiting to happen.

As someone who has had to supervise teenagers on work experience… god no. Just no.

Serving ice cream might sound simple to you

Clearly it's not .

@Regularsizedrudy

As someone who has had to supervise teenagers on work experience… god no. Just no.

In fairness, it does depend on the teenager. My dd is 16 but her boss tells me that she's better than several of his adult staff!!

When I was that age I worked in a pub kitchen - there were three or four of us collecting plates and washing up. We were all told to say we were the landlords niece/nephew. 😳
I think it is exploiting a young person to expect them to do a job for under contract he minimum wage, when just because someone is older they are paid more for the same job.

I enquired at Tesco about shelf filling type of work for our 15 year old for the summer.
Not allowed until 16.
Shame as many staff keep going off to isolate and they are busy with home delivery orders too

You try getting employee insurance for under 16s OP and then come back to me. Then there is the council permit to allow you to employ someone under 16...

I don’t have a problem with 15-16 year olds working (I do for anything lower, though - children are already in school for a lot of their time + homework on top usually resulting in full time adult hours).

However, it’s to exploitable and unfair to the children. The pay - doing the same job as others for a fraction of the pay due to their age. The fact that kids are less likely to speak up about exploitation over adults. Uni students are allowed to work part time but there’s rules on that too (depending on uni) about how much that impedes their study time. These are children we talking about. I don’t understand the problem about ‘extending’ childhood to 15 year olds. They are still in full time education and are in fact CHILDREN.

And furthering the problem - What if the parents demand they work to ‘pay rent’, when the parents should be responsible for housing and food until education ends? There’s a lot of pitfalls so I understand why the rules are so stringent. Work for 15-16 year olds should be more about experience rather than an additional means for money. I’m not suggesting we shouldn’t pay or reward but to force that level or pressure is cruel - it should be for enrichment foremost.

I'm with you Op - had a part time job when I was 13 (early 1990s in a petrol station!). The work ethic that it instilled and the confidence it gave me as well as the freedom as I was earning my own money (we didn't have a lot so meant I could buy myself some things without having to burden my parents) was phenomenal.

I think it's criminal that the legislation and regulations mean it's pretty much impossible for 14 & 15 year olds to get jobs. Exploitative employers will exploit people regardless of their age, so someone younger with parents who support them are much less likely to be exploited IMHO.

@SunsetandCupcakes

It can help kids to not be exploited

But when do we accept they are not kids? They can have a baby at 16, and a moped, in some parts of the world they would nearly be middle aged.

When do we stop?

Re employment:
Well obviously the rules change hugely once they hit 16y so from then perhaps?
Do you think the laws were put in place just for the fun of it? Or maybe they were put in place because too many children were exploited in their work in the 90s, etc?

My mum was obsessed with me having summer jobs and I hated it!

To be frank children have their whole lives ahead of them to work, I just don’t understand the clamour from some to get them out to work as soon as possible.

[quote MythsandSparkles]@catfunk see I read that and wonder where your parents were?

That workload is more than just earning a bit of pocket money which is what the OP is talking about.

And if you were only earning pocket money from seemingly a dawn to midnight workload then you were being exploited…which rather proves the point of why we now have so many regulations.[/quote]
My parents were great, my dad was a police officer and my mum a teacher. It wasn't illegal back then and I wasn't being exploited- it was my choice to work 2 jobs, I was fit and energetic enough to do it (I would be dead on my feet now)
I absolutely loved my jobs and was paid well and earned great tips. Enough to pay for holidays and save up for driving lessons.

The laws were brought in because people took the piss with getting young kids to stupid hours for next to no pay. It was exploitation.

I just find it so sad, we've extended childhood beyond what is acceptable and we've continued to repress those that need to work.

Childhood extended beyond an acceptable range? Because they can't work for pittance before they're 16 and are being protected from exploitive employers?

What's more sad is that a child, any child, NEEDS to work really.
Of course I know some families struggle, but surely that's the real sadness.

In an ideal world no child should need to work. They should be free to enjoy their childhood and their teenage years without the trappings of having to,hold down a job, alongside fitting in their schooling.

I also must day it did me lots of favours in terms of dealing with adults, social skills, confidence etc.
I interview graduates these days and the lack of work experience (and life experience that comes with it) is really off putting for an employer

I think 16 is about the right age to start part time work.

My 15yo has a PT job, but where she works isn't licensed,.which probably helps, and she doesn't enter the kitchens ever.
I imagine most of this is actually down to commercial insurance- far easier for insurance companies to just say no under 16s than have more complicated policies.

It’s interesting you say that @catfunk as I do feel like my parents obsession with me working had a negative impact on reversion as when I was home I just wanted to relax.

'Pot wash' isn't what it sounds like. Generally it's collecting the dirty plates/cups/utensils and loading them into an industrial dishwasher. The cycle takes minutes and is absolutely steaming hot. Then you get that lot out and put the next one in, and the next, and the next. Not really suitable for children.