Page 3 | To think if you are that short of staff you should employ 15year olds?

SunsetandCupcakes · 2021-07-17T17:19:04+00:00

I'm not that old, still old but in the v late 90s I had a job in the kitchens, my brother had a job selling ice creams at 14. Catering near me is struggling to fill vacancies, it's the summer in a holiday town, two kiosks have had to close as no staff and yet my 15 year old isn't allowed to work. How can working be more detrimental than sat at home on the PS4, we've ended up with a funny view on teenagers

Blossomtoes · 17/07/2021 18:46

Jesus, I bet some of you’d be happy if we sent little boys up chimneys.

warmfluffytowels · 17/07/2021 18:46

I used to work in retail and employing under-18's was a pain in the arse, to be honest.

Not because the employees were bad, but because the legislation and restrictions meant you still had to have experienced members of staff on duty - so it didn't actually help any kind of staffing problems we had.

They couldn't work beyond a certain time, had to have extra breaks, couldn't do certain jobs due to insurance, couldn't be left alone for security reasons - it was really of no help whatsoever.

We only employed over-eighteens as a result.

00100001 · 17/07/2021 18:48

@SunsetandCupcakes

It can help kids to not be exploited

But when do we accept they are not kids? They can have a baby at 16, and a moped, in some parts of the world they would nearly be middle aged.

They're still not an adult though....

18 is when they're an adult.

catfunk · 17/07/2021 18:49

@pinkcircustop

At that age, especially in hospitality, they’re more of a hinderance than a help.

Absolute bullshit. I started working in hospitality aged 13, was singlehandedly running a sandwich shop on a Saturday aged 15 till 4pm when I'd clean down and lock up, then used to work in my village pub on an evening till midnight. I was bloody brilliant at it, and had way more energy than I have now.

TheGenealogist · 17/07/2021 18:50

@SilverOak

The law is the problem here. Employers have to comply with a whole load of safeguarding laws to employ under 16s nowadays. It’s not surprising that most of them have decided it isn’t worth the hassle.

This exactly. There are SO many hoops to jump through that employers see being desperate as older staff as preferable to dealing with children.

warmfluffytowels · 17/07/2021 18:52

Yes, but @catfunk you're not allowed to do all that now. So employing young people is, like a PP said, a hinderance as by law, they need constant supervision, loads of breaks and can only work a few hours a day.

user27424799642256 · 17/07/2021 18:52

Yeh, I'm thinking instances of 15 year old children working in pubs until late at night is probably why we have laws like these.

Riapia · 17/07/2021 18:52

OP this is AIBU, the views expressed on here are not necessarily those of the person posting them.

TotorosCatBus · 17/07/2021 18:53

There's lots of rules about hiring children.
15 year olds can't work after 7pm, serve alcohol and can't work the long hours that 16+ year olds can.

TotorosCatBus · 17/07/2021 18:54

My dd is a part-time barista and the minimum age for applicants is 17.

mikadolado · 17/07/2021 18:55

We employ 14 year old upwards on a Saturday where I work. They get £6.50 per hour. I think there are rules for a Sunday where they either can't work or only a couple of hours...not quite sure. Some are brilliant at it, some not so much!

MythsandSparkles · 17/07/2021 18:57

@catfunk see I read that and wonder where your parents were?

That workload is more than just earning a bit of pocket money which is what the OP is talking about.

And if you were only earning pocket money from seemingly a dawn to midnight workload then you were being exploited…which rather proves the point of why we now have so many regulations.

cariadlet · 17/07/2021 18:57

I think it's a shame. There must be plenty of 15 year olds who are desperate for a summer job and would be reliable. Even if there's a limit to the hours which they are allowed to work, you could employ a couple of young part-timers if you can't find an adult wanting full time work.

Dd is 18 and waitresses at a local restaurant. She's worked there for a few years so was probably about 14 or 15 when she started.

warmfluffytowels · 17/07/2021 18:57

The government website says the following about hiring 15 year olds:

During school holidays, 15 to 16-year-olds can only work a maximum of 35 hours a week. This includes a maximum of 8 hours on weekdays and Saturdays, and a maximum of 2 hours on Sunday.

and they must have an employment permit issued by the education department of the local council, if this is required by local bylaws

in places like a factory or industrial site

They also can't work:

before 7am or after 7pm
for more than one hour before school (unless local bylaws allow it)
for more than 4 hours without taking a break of at least 1 hour
in any work that may be harmful to their health, well-being or education
without having a 2-week break from any work during the school holidays in each calendar year

The times, break restrictions and hours on weekends (Sundays especially) means hiring a 15yo is pointless for many companies.

Echobelly · 17/07/2021 18:57

It is sad that so many people seem to think anyone who hasn't finished education is a useless liability! I never had jobs as a teenager, but I can see them being good for development - and teenagers can be perfectly competent.

Obviously, employers shouldn't be able to exploit young workers, but young people should still be allowed to work at an appropriate level.

warmfluffytowels · 17/07/2021 18:57

Link: www.gov.uk/child-employment/restrictions-on-child-employment

TotorosCatBus · 17/07/2021 18:57

The 15 year olds that I know who are in work are often weekend help for adults teaching kids sport. They help referee footie matches, extra pair of hands for training etc

properg · 17/07/2021 18:57

There's all sorts of rules now that make it unattractive.

Kanaloa · 17/07/2021 18:57

If he’s really wanting to work perhaps he could look for something casual? Babysitting maybe, or dog walking, something like that?

To be honest I can see why places do this, there needs to be a minimum age and they’ve decided it’s 16/18. That’s just how it is.

Kanaloa · 17/07/2021 18:59

Although a friend of mine (20s) was saying recently how she’s applied for loads of different jobs and is really struggling to get something, maybe there is just more people going for jobs so they have their pick of adult candidates who can do full hours, shorter breaks etc.

warmfluffytowels · 17/07/2021 18:59

@Echobelly

It is sad that so many people seem to think anyone who hasn't finished education is a useless liability! I never had jobs as a teenager, but I can see them being good for development - and teenagers can be perfectly competent.

Obviously, employers shouldn't be able to exploit young workers, but young people should still be allowed to work at an appropriate level.

It's not they're a liability because they're incapable - it's because hiring a 15yo often creates more work - it doesn't solve the issue of low staffing.

They need lots of breaks (way more than even a 16yo), can't work early in the morning or in the evening, can't work more than 2 hours on Sundays etc.

In my experience of retail management, hiring them just creates more problems and requires more staff to provide supervision, training and cover.

ChrissyPlummer · 17/07/2021 19:01

@AlexaShutUp some of them do need to work. Like the OP, I didn’t get much pocket money as my DPs couldn’t afford it. I ended up with a paper round just to get a few extra quid, it was weekly delivering the local free paper. I hated it, tramping round the cold, dark streets in pretty terrible weather, sometimes for an extra £3 (the pay depended on if there were any leaflets to go in). I think the most I ever got was £12.

My parents were contrary in that they wouldn’t let me work in a shop etc until I was 16, but also expected me to not ask for money. One of my friends relatives had a catering contract for the local Masonic hall and said I could wait on with my friend, my dad wouldn’t let me as I was only 13/14.

I don’t see why a paper round is OK; going about in the cold and dark but working in a pub/shop where it’s warm and safe (if well managed) is deemed to be unsafe.

properg · 17/07/2021 19:01

It's harder to exploit kids now hence why they are unattractive. I kinda think that's a good thing.

TheGlassBlowersDaughter · 17/07/2021 19:05

Catering can be tricky. Quite often they want people who have a food handling qualification. Underage teens don't tend to have that. I'm sure your DC could find a different job.

AlexaShutUp · 17/07/2021 19:05

[quote ChrissyPlummer]@AlexaShutUp some of them do need to work. Like the OP, I didn’t get much pocket money as my DPs couldn’t afford it. I ended up with a paper round just to get a few extra quid, it was weekly delivering the local free paper. I hated it, tramping round the cold, dark streets in pretty terrible weather, sometimes for an extra £3 (the pay depended on if there were any leaflets to go in). I think the most I ever got was £12.

My parents were contrary in that they wouldn’t let me work in a shop etc until I was 16, but also expected me to not ask for money. One of my friends relatives had a catering contract for the local Masonic hall and said I could wait on with my friend, my dad wouldn’t let me as I was only 13/14.

I don’t see why a paper round is OK; going about in the cold and dark but working in a pub/shop where it’s warm and safe (if well managed) is deemed to be unsafe.[/quote]
I'm well aware that some children are living in poverty, so might feel that they need to work, but I don't think that the solution to that is to change the law in order to push them into paid employment at such a young age. I'd rather that the state provided a proper safety net for families so that the needs of all children are fully met.

If we're talking about wants rather than needs, then I think it's fine for them to wait until they're 16.