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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To need to become little more ruthless?

73 replies

WeirdArchitecture · 14/07/2021 20:15

Ive always been the type who tells the truth, honours decency and likes to live true to my heart. I make a point of not 'using' people or making my way forward in a mercenary fashion, so, for example I am not the type who would put money before love, and have always judged people on their behaviour rather than their abilities/status.
I want to add that I don't do this because I think it is correct, it is just who I am, generally.

I have no intention of trying to harden myself, but when I look around me, even the loveliest people I know tend to 'schmooze' or look out for social capital. And of those who do this, regardless how comfortably off they are/are not, seem to always land on their feet.

I am soon starting afresh, having prepared to leave my long term relationship of 20 yrs (we are good friends) and will be looking for a new place to rent, with a view to self sufficiency. I am self employed but on a. creative income so will need to add some extra work or ideas to go forward. I also have over 40k in the bank and I am excited to get moving.

However, I will be fussing about where to live, what to spend, how to get some extra work, make new friends and contacts, etc.
In comparison, I have a good friend who has always been a good social schmoozer who has literally no savings or work at present, and having amassed a decent level of social capital he is now in line for a new job and someone giving him their flat for 6 months while they're away.

Another friend, who I used to call 'mercenary' manages to always wind up in a wonderful position due to who she befriends. She is long term disabled and not working but thankfully has a pretty nice life with a cottage and garden (good connections to a lovely landlord).

Some seem to just land lucky, even when they have no assets.

Do I need to become a little more flexible with my own schmoozing and quit being to pure and true to these pretty ambiguous ideals?

What say you lot?

OP posts:
MerryDecembermas · 15/07/2021 09:55

Myers Briggs framework is a useful tool for me on these sorts of ponderings.

I'm with you OP and see where you're coming from.

PartridgeFeather · 15/07/2021 10:41

Schmoozing is a silly word imo.

Your friends have different relational styles.

I think you just need to remain clear on what you want and go for it/ask for what you need. Remove other people's opinions from the equation.

callingon · 15/07/2021 11:26

This reminds me of The Friendship Paradox - you’re more likely to be friends with people who have more friends than you. It’s hard to work out what you mean from your OP - if you want professional or personal advice?

SingingInTheShithouse · 15/07/2021 11:29

Meh, it's overrated & really depends on what you value in life

I was successful in my work due to being upfront & honest & good at what I did. This was in what's considered quiet a fake industry.

Part of my job was occasionally client facing & involved smoozing to get my/companies needs met over their ridiculous requests so as to make any profit. I hated it & felt a complete fake ass whilst doing it as I'd rather have just said it how it was.

Bizarrely people tended to gravitate towards me, even though I've always been pretty antisocial & speak my mind. They still do at times, so sometimes it can be more than just smoozing.

I do know what you mean though. I've an ex old friend, an ex actress who was a master at this & bullshitted her way into work/orders & then relied on her actual skilled friends to support her through doing the work. I called her out on it when she continually was calling on my expertise to dig her out of yet another hole she didn't have the skill set to cope with. We are no longer friends

CSIblonde · 15/07/2021 11:52

Im good at schmoozing but I've only deliberately used it, to get work as a Contractor. Nothing else, because it doesn't come that naturally. It made contracting less hit & miss: I had no gaps in work for 7 years, which is really rare. I learnt it tho, from watching friends who are just naturally that way & didn't conciously use it as a life tool. You seem to imply your friends use it as a tool for getting a cushy life etc. Maybe they're just naturally good at networking. Some people are, it doesn't mean they are awful people.

Notjustanymum · 15/07/2021 11:54

I think you are a Guess personality? Try becoming an Ask personality (look up Ask vs. Guess culture) - it might answer some of your questions.

BackInBlackAgain · 15/07/2021 11:57

Schmoozing takes effort, i am too lazy to do that, probably why i have very rarely been given "a free ticket", i have had to get it myself.

pinkflask · 15/07/2021 12:02

My DP is great at schmoozing and it’s eye-opening! He isn’t fake or manipulative but just knows the power of networking and is really good at it. He gets 95% of his work this way either directly or indirectly (happy customers recommend others to him, he never has to advertise) and actively maintains relationships that can be beneficial to him - again this is genuinely because he likes the people but knowing they live somewhere he might like to stay is a motivator for him so he’ll make more effort to check in, chat with them etc. But it’s not just for the end result. Basically by being very proactive and reaching out a lot it means he always has a table at the pub even if it’s booked because he’s friends with the landlord, he gets his car done for cheap because he’s friends with a mechanic, always knows someone he can borrow something from, could hop on a flight and crash at someone’s in any number of countries…but I suppose the important thing is that he will also do things for other people. If he’s picked veg from the garden and has spare he’ll go round to someone’s house and leave some for them, he’ll cut their hedge, make a hanging basket…little things that grease the wheels. It’s really effective and a great way to feel you live in a community.

Tal45 · 15/07/2021 12:29

You can only really be yourself OP. Would you want to be in these different social circles seeing what you could get out of the connections? To me it sounds like a lot of hard work and I would always feel beholden to the people who gave me stuff - I find generally people want something in return even if it's not obvious at first. If you're a super social person anyway then why not, but no point trying to be someone you're not.

FollowYourOwnNorthStar · 15/07/2021 13:20

Tips to help:

Firstly - Schmoozing/networking is usually a way of life for those that do it well, not something you turn on and off. It is usually in people’s DNA, they enjoy it, they make other people enjoy speaking to them/helping them. They cats the net wide - it occurs all day with everyone - with the person serving you coffee (‘mmm, you always make it perfectly’), the person in the lift (‘nice shoes’), their boss, their co-workers, their hairdresser. It’s part of their personality, and that’s why they are good at it. It isn’t inauthentic, they can genuinely and easily connect with people over small things.

In work settings or high stress social settings they can look like they are network the boss or the higher level people, and that is true, but really they are so confident and practiced at this, that when everyone else is on best behaviour (and nervous and quiet) in front of the big boss, they already have a confident, practiced charm ready and are themselves - resulting in them networking the boss because no one else is really talking to them like a human.

So this tip is really saying it’s a way of life. You can’t just turn it on and off again, as 1) you won’t be practiced enough, 2) the whole point is to cast the net wide. You don’t know that the woman in the coffee shop’s mother has an apartment that needs a caretaker in central London for 6 months, you need to be her friend before that comes up. Likewise, your friend’s old school friend isn’t going to put your name forward for a job at her company unless she has heard about you for awhile and likes you. So you will network and not get anywhere unless you do it all the time.

It’s a way of life. And if you aren’t comfortable (as it sounds like this isn't you), it will be a pretty miserable life, as you’ll always have to be turned to this setting. Whereas other people find it as easy as breathing and can’t turn it off.

Secondly - you have to cast the net wide for any return

Thirdly - you have to romance your life, and romance the returns you get. Things have to be painted as wonderful, regardless of truth. The central London flat might be full of mould, have drilling next to it and have screaming neighbours, but it has to be the best thing ever, else you don’t get offered anything else. The job has to be the best ever (even if it’s the mailroom), and/or if you leave it has to be for the even-better greatest thing ever (even if that is another mail room). If you don’t, people think you are ungrateful and you don’t get another offer, also you need people to envy and want you in their lives, hence the offers to help.

Finally, it is a precarious existence. You don’t have the luxury of turning down the flat or the job as you have no other options and no $ in the bank. You can’t chose where to live or what job exactly, you have to take what comes up. This is fine when you are young, but later in life you want some autonomy over your life. As you have said in your OP, one of these people has no home, job and no $ in the bank. So doing this hasn’t gotten him very far, has it? But because he romances his own life, you are now questioning whether his way is better!

Judging from your post, (and I say this kindly), I don’t think this is for you. I think your ‘heritage’ streak would mean this would all make you unhappy and you would come to dread interactions with people. But having said that, I would try and shift your rigid stance on networking/schmoozing and engage in it abit. Knowing more people and having strong social connections is always a good thing, even if it doesn’t lead to jobs or flats, it sometimes leads to new partners, new friends, more people……and I think Covid has taught us that more of that is a good thing.

Unsoliciteddeckpic · 15/07/2021 14:11

I am confused you don't have to be mercenary to be socialable.

I am not a great networked. But I did it, because it does help open doors. It did eventually, get me a great job with great pay.

However, I still value people over things. Judge people on who they are, not what they have.

I am totally confused, what about your friends is mercenary or ruthless they have made a built connections on their lives. Those connections have helped them out.

Unsoliciteddeckpic · 15/07/2021 14:13

Oh and the networking alone didn't get me the job. But I wouldn't have got it with without networking and i work hard for my wages.

My MD would laugh at the prospect of me being mercenary and taking advantage of him

Cocomarine · 15/07/2021 14:21

@WeirdArchitecture

hey, I didnt post here for a goddamn slanging match, calm the fuck down.

if anyone can see what I mean, and offer some clarity on what I have discussed, please do.

You will find in life that a lot of people are willing to offer things. Just because they’re “nice” - or maybe, cynically if you like, because they like feeling that they are nice. Plenty of people are altruistic. Sometimes the barrier is from your side, being open up accept the help.

When your friend was offered accommodation, they were presumably a, “thanks - that’s so kind of you, I appreciate it’ person and not an, “I really couldn’t” person.

That may be time, oppprtunities, introductions, savings, actual things.

Your OP does come across that you look down on people for using and taking. Perhaps you did use the wrong words - but beware if that’s what you are projecting.

Accept offers, make offers. Frankly, get your head out of your arse over “authenticity” and just be. Don’t think about it and stop talking about ethics. I have something, you want it, I’m happy to give it - no navel gazing on authenticity and ethics is required.

I would just suggest that the attitude in the quote above will not help though 🤣 the people who are willing to offer will be put off.

DrRamsesEmerson · 15/07/2021 14:22

@WeirdArchitecture

Ive always been the type who tells the truth, honours decency and likes to live true to my heart. I make a point of not 'using' people or making my way forward in a mercenary fashion, so, for example I am not the type who would put money before love, and have always judged people on their behaviour rather than their abilities/status. I want to add that I don't do this because I think it is correct, it is just who I am, generally.

I have no intention of trying to harden myself, but when I look around me, even the loveliest people I know tend to 'schmooze' or look out for social capital. And of those who do this, regardless how comfortably off they are/are not, seem to always land on their feet.

I am soon starting afresh, having prepared to leave my long term relationship of 20 yrs (we are good friends) and will be looking for a new place to rent, with a view to self sufficiency. I am self employed but on a. creative income so will need to add some extra work or ideas to go forward. I also have over 40k in the bank and I am excited to get moving.

However, I will be fussing about where to live, what to spend, how to get some extra work, make new friends and contacts, etc.
In comparison, I have a good friend who has always been a good social schmoozer who has literally no savings or work at present, and having amassed a decent level of social capital he is now in line for a new job and someone giving him their flat for 6 months while they're away.

Another friend, who I used to call 'mercenary' manages to always wind up in a wonderful position due to who she befriends. She is long term disabled and not working but thankfully has a pretty nice life with a cottage and garden (good connections to a lovely landlord).

Some seem to just land lucky, even when they have no assets.

Do I need to become a little more flexible with my own schmoozing and quit being to pure and true to these pretty ambiguous ideals?

What say you lot?

It sounds as though you don't like other people very much.
wigglerose · 15/07/2021 14:26

One person's "schmoozer" is another person's individual with high emotional intelligence and resiliance. I know one person who I think is a user. She has a knack for finding helpful types to do things for her but it is always one-way. Then again my SIL has high emotional intelligence and picks up friends everywhere but always helps everyone around her. It depends really.

Manzanilla55 · 15/07/2021 14:42

Some people attract many opportunities in life whereas a fair few of us do not. I think it must be great to have friends everywhere and in the right places. It is something I can only dream about!

OhNoNoNoNoNo · 15/07/2021 15:42

I think one persons 'schmoozing' is another person ' being friendly'

I question the fact that you value the fact that you tell the truth. I often find people that like to tell other people the truth to be be harsh and unkind. You see posters on Mumsnet who value 'straight talking' and being 'blunt' but they usually come across as rude and nasty tbh

I think a lot of people are socially flexible and can get on with all different types of people by tweeking their own behaviour. I dont think that makes them disingenuous.

Lavender24 · 15/07/2021 16:02

I don't know why people are jumping on OP.

I know what you mean. I have work colleagues who are always sucking up to the boss and I just can't bring myself to do it.

toconclude · 15/07/2021 16:16

@WeirdArchitecture

well that went down well!
Honestly what did you expect? "Shall I become more like those awful people or rely on my creativity innate goodness, superior morals and fat stash of cash to get by?"
toconclude · 15/07/2021 16:24

@pinkflask

My neighbour is just like that! It's no coincidence that she is also head of department in a nearby LA.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/07/2021 16:40

I can see why you would have issues networking tbh

FinallyHere · 15/07/2021 17:17

@WeirdArchitecture

I am just literally unable to do it.

What is your evidence for this? What strategies have you tried. Did they not work out? Might you be open to trying different strategies.

I think anyone who is really good at doing something, makes it look effortless. It never really is, you just see the effort people put in. Maybe effort is the wrong description but what I think of as networking as very definitely a skill that like any other skill needs knowledge and skill.

Simple thing, very basic. When you meet new people, do you remember their names ? Even more basic, have you met any new people recently. If so, did you remember their names?

My guess would be that it is impossible to know whether the people you see being successful are really just out for what they can get, or taking a genuine interest in other people who occasionally opens up opportunities for them.

There very much are lots of networking tips and skills. I would encourage people to only do it if they really enjoy it, otherwise what is the point.

I really enjoy meeting different people and may seem to others to be a bit of a schmoozer . I was once promoted into a new role which turned out to have that kind of approach to build the business. I hated it and so was not good at it.

In my social life I do it without thinking.

The dale Carnegie foundation does some good intros. But all the skills in the world won't help unless, in a particular situation, you want to display those attributes.

Unsoliciteddeckpic · 15/07/2021 17:25

@Lavender24

I don't know why people are jumping on OP.

I know what you mean. I have work colleagues who are always sucking up to the boss and I just can't bring myself to do it.

Sucking up to the boss or just being friendly with another person.

Even if you want to be friendly, with someone because they are your boss....what's wrong with that? Make your work life a bit more pleasant and might find you actually like a person.

Or do you expect a boss to treated differently? And have no-one have a friendly conversation with them?

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