To need to become little more ruthless?

[WeirdArchitecture]

Ive always been the type who tells the truth, honours decency and likes to live true to my heart. I make a point of not 'using' people or making my way forward in a mercenary fashion, so, for example I am not the type who would put money before love, and have always judged people on their behaviour rather than their abilities/status.
I want to add that I don't do this because I think it is correct, it is just who I am, generally.

I have no intention of trying to harden myself, but when I look around me, even the loveliest people I know tend to 'schmooze' or look out for social capital. And of those who do this, regardless how comfortably off they are/are not, seem to always land on their feet.

I am soon starting afresh, having prepared to leave my long term relationship of 20 yrs (we are good friends) and will be looking for a new place to rent, with a view to self sufficiency. I am self employed but on a. creative income so will need to add some extra work or ideas to go forward. I also have over 40k in the bank and I am excited to get moving.

However, I will be fussing about where to live, what to spend, how to get some extra work, make new friends and contacts, etc.
In comparison, I have a good friend who has always been a good social schmoozer who has literally no savings or work at present, and having amassed a decent level of social capital he is now in line for a new job and someone giving him their flat for 6 months while they're away.

Another friend, who I used to call 'mercenary' manages to always wind up in a wonderful position due to who she befriends. She is long term disabled and not working but thankfully has a pretty nice life with a cottage and garden (good connections to a lovely landlord).

Some seem to just land lucky, even when they have no assets.

Do I need to become a little more flexible with my own schmoozing and quit being to pure and true to these pretty ambiguous ideals?

What say you lot?

Schmoozing. It’s getting to know people and yes, be polite, enthusiastic and sometimes stroking their ego. Getting to know what makes that person tick and their strengths. Then using the information and contacts gained for personal benefit. Quite often mutually beneficial to both parties, but not always simultaneously. I would say. Oth parties are aware of what’s happening as part of a social construct. Often used to take place on golf courses.
Stopping short of blackmail of course - that is manipulative.
That’s what I see as schmoozing.

@WeirdArchitecture

hey, I didnt post here for a goddamn slanging match, calm the fuck down.

if anyone can see what I mean, and offer some clarity on what I have discussed, please do.

For someone who claims to not judge in a Buddhist way, to honour decency and to cling to the pure and true, you seem to be pretty judgemental and angry.

Maybe think about rephrasing your post as ‘How do I learn to network?’

It all sounds like game playing to me. If I were you, I couldn't be bothered. You sound like you've done excellently in life to me and to be on the brink of the next chapter is very exciting. Do what feels right, OP.

Networking ! That’s it.

But you’ve called them ‘mercenary’ and suggested they’re ‘inauthentic’, while describing your own mode of relating to the world as ‘pure’, ‘honouring decency’ ‘true to my heart’ etc.

Yes and Buddhist like

Learning to network and building social capital has made a huge difference for me. I am still an introvert, I am still pretty forthright at times and I still enjoy periods of solitude but being able to smile, say something nice or just polite and not offering up every opinion that comes into my head has made life a lot easier. If anything, it gives you more people to turn to when things are tough (e.g. a friend got a cheap flat through another friend when she had a horrible living situation). There's value to be had in community and social cohesion and it is a skill to contribute to and partake in that. (Clearly, I mean within limits. Nobody wants to be a blind sheep but equally a network is good for people!)

And it is not manipulation, it's about the benefits and joys of building and maintaining the variety of relationships that are to be had in life.

@Weirdarchitecture

Hi, you sound similar to me and my advice is to just stay as you are.
I know what you mean and I used to wonder the same but I've come to realise that I take after my grandad. He was an easy going, laid back type of man and I'm proud to be like him.

However, when it comes to fighting for my autistic son's rights, I can be an absolute tiger !!!!

Good luck in your new chapter of life

So you’re saying your friends are natural people pleasers and have been given good opportunities and support in life as a result?

The only people I know who are good at schmoozing are arse-lickers and users, only interested in what others can do for them. If they land on their feet it’s because they’ve stroked someone else’s ego and that really isn’t in my nature.

You need to judge people, you need to have some standards and not 'what will be will be'.

If someone is always out of work - take a second very careful look. Why are they out of work? Are they lazy/dishonest/rude? Or have they had caring responsibilities/run if bad luck not of their making? Be wary, but get to know them.

My default setting is not to make someone a Friend until I trust them - which is different to being friendly, I need to add.

But until you get to know them, you can chat to them, be friendly and take an interest. Put yourself forward in a positive light, you don't know who they are yet, they may be someone you will come to really like having in your life, but you have to get to know them first. You can build up a network of friendly acquaintances this way, you don't have to turn them all into great friends, but there are a lot of levels between acquaintance and good friend and lot of people you know will end up somewhere on that scale.

Also, it seems to be more of a man thing to do, but there is nothing wrong with contacting an acquaintance and asking for advice/assistance (with boundaries, don't try to avoid paying for professional advice and don't play 'pretend best friends' for it.) I find women find this harder to do 'oh I haven't spoken to them in a year, I can't just call them up out of the blue' whereas my ex would happily say ' I used to go to school with X, he'll know something about this, I'll drop him a line' and not feel the least bit guilty about it.

I think you're way over thinking their situation, some people are naturally more social and bring people towards them by being who they are.
Others feel connections need a key to get into their life.
Easy going people have an easier life, up-tight make life harder for themselves.
No-one wants to listen to someone bang on in judgement of their high standards.
I like someone who likes a laugh and doesn't take themself too serious.

It all depends on context:

Networking with people in the same line of work- not at all unethical and expected in many professions.

Befriending a neighbour because you want to use their holiday home- that’s using people.

You can use social capital while still being true to yourself. It’s not ruthless to ask people for something if it’s a symbiotic relationship.

@WorraLiberty Thank you

Why is everyone splitting feathers over the word schmooze? We all know what it means.

OP,. I know exactly these types of people, they always manage to engineer things to their liking.

A woman at the school gate has managed to get all the kids she likes into her kid's class at school for example and also on the football team. It's all so political! I personally wouldn't have the energy and are far too 'que sera sera'

I think you’re already quite ruthless if you consider your disabled friend lucky and mercenary because they have a nice cottage 🤣

Like others, when you first posted, I thought you were talking about what you see your friends doing as being in some way deceitful and inauthentic, but it sounds like that maybe isn't what you mean. You're really just amazed at how they can find and maintain interest and connection with a much wider range of people than you are able to? And you'd like to try and emulate that a bit?

I used to be good at that (I'm not really like that any more!). I have a wide range of friends who I could call on to help out, but I haven't made many new friends in about 15 years and I can't really be bothered. It didn't used to seem like work, though! It was a genuine interest in people, especially people who were different from me. I liked spending time with people. I liked hearing about their lives. I was happy to try new things because someone I knew liked it, to go watch someone in an AmDram or turn up at a party where I only knew the host or to make up numbers. And I liked organizing social gatherings, hosting, introducing people, etc. I knew how to talk to people and get them to talk about themselves. I had lots of time and energy for going out and doing things and a way better memory than I do now.

It was never about putting money before love. I didn't judge people on their status/money (nor, that much, on their behaviour). I didn't "schmooze" to get social capital. I "schmoozed" and made friends and because of that I had social capital with lots of people. People who had lots and people who didn't. I liked drinking in dives and high end cocktail bars and coffee bars. Was happy with my working class friends and my Oxbridge friends. Some of the friends that were in more humble circumstances when I first knew them, friendships that I would never have made if I had been prioritising money/status or what I thought I could get, are ones that are now some of the more high status people I know. I think this is important to understand. If you are making friends with people because you think they may be useful to you and you don't genuinely enjoy being friends, you're not going to enjoy your life at all.

I didn't choose to stop being that way. It just seemed to happen as I got older, so my experience probably isn't going to illustrate how you can change. But I do have a friend (one of my more "humble" friends who is now a judge) who sort of went the other way. He wasn't very gregarious when I first met him, but as an ambitious lawyer without family connections in the industry, he needed to learn how to schmooze for work so he took a class, in small talk and networking. And he worked it, at first as a means to an end within work settings, but eventually he started to see the benefit in getting to know (and like) lots of different people. As I've become more of a curmudgeon, he's become the life and soul. We often joke about it. So maybe that's the way to start - take a class on networking. Practice what you learn and take an interest in the people you connect with, be open with them and non-judgmental (about behaviour as well as status). You may find you like it.

*In comparison, I have a good friend who has always been a good social schmoozer who has literally no savings or work at present, and having amassed a decent level of social capital he is now in line for a new job and someone giving him their flat for 6 months while they're away.

Another friend, who I used to call 'mercenary' manages to always wind up in a wonderful position due to who she befriends. She is long term disabled and not working but thankfully has a pretty nice life with a cottage and garden (good connections to a lovely landlord).*

It is strange that you see their good fortune/luck as deliberate courting of people that can help them in some way. Why do you think your friend got a new job because they schmoozed their way into it? Is it not more likely that they got it because they are the ideal person for the job, they are qualified, they worked hard to get there?

Why are you implying your friend with a disability has somehow engineered her situation to her benefit, by schmoozing her landlord? Perhaps she has just found a place to live with a decent landlord. She is lucky to have found a nice place to live. You seem to be implying that your friends have manipulated people to their advantage, which is a rather odd way of viewing them.

I'm not sure why you need to get so defensive. You asked for opinions, but it seems you only want ones that agree with you.

@Merryoldgoat

I am unable to schmooze and therefore cannot help.

I’m an open book - my DH says he doesn’t think I’ve ever had an unexpressed emotion.

Occasionally I try to be a little less open etc but it usually lasts an hour. Be true to who you are. All other ways lead to madness.

This made me laugh, in a good way.

We are probably quite similar! 😊

When I was short of money, I used to have quite a wide network of people I could ask for favours.
I cultivated that by being willing to do favours for others. It was a reciprocal thing.
It wasn't manipulative. I was happy to put in as well as take out. But I guess at the back of my mind, I'd have the idea that I should build up good will, in case I needed something from someone else one day.

Now I can usually solve my problems by spending my own money and I notice my friendships are more about passing the time of day together. Rather than mutual aid and survival.

I think if you have 40k in savings, your in a fortunate position. Schmoozing for survival is precarious and hard work.

By ruthless, inauthentic etc do you mean should you try and use people to your benefit? In that case, no. If you build authentic relationships with people they might give you things/help you out as a natural consequence. But I wouldn't set out to get things from people.

Unless like other people said you're talking about networking which is different and a more transparent thing - this is a useful skill for anyone.

Is there anything in particular you want to gain from it?

I do see where you are coming from. But in defence of us "schmoozers", not all of us are manipulative mercenaries. Some, myself included, just love to chat to people with no professional outcome in mind. My friends call me the arch-schmoozer because I can walk into a room full of strangers and start or join a conversation. And BTW, it rarely leads to a dazzling opportunity -- but that is fine by me. If I meet someone who'd like to have a coffee catch-up plus walk and talk in a park, I've done really well.

OP, you might think such social interaction is a part of being "ruthless", but I assure you it is not. Certain personalities get energised by being around others and drawing them out. We're not being fake. We are being ourselves. We appreciate introverts, too. I don't mean to sound patronising. It's just that it's not a bad thing if one slightly more extroverted person can home in on someone who might quite enjoy being asked some genuine questions about themselves and having the chance to present themselves as an interesting person, which they usually are.

It sounds like you are saying your friends are more popular than you and you object to this because you believe yourself to be a nicer person?

You’re very judgmental. Your disabled friend would probably rather not be disabled, you know?

Honestly - you won’t be able to do it as you actually are being mercenary. Having good connections is actually a side benefit of being sociable.

I run a business that’s probably not dissimilar to yours and I’ve got a good network - but that’s because I’m very free with giving advice, open to chatting with new people and do take a genuine interest in them.

If you don’t feel like that - then you just don’t. You’ve mentioned inauthenticity- and if you go out with the mentality of “gaining something” people will smell it a mile off.