Is my Dad being brainwashed by alt-right anti vaxxers?

[AbitSceptical]

I'm not sure if this is really an AIBU but I don't know where else to post and maybe IABU for being worried about this...

My Dad, in his 70s, lives alone, has always been free-market right (socially he's more liberal).

He subscribes to e-news sites and gets update emails from right wing media sources, which are all anti-lockdown, anti-vax, anti-woke. He often sends us (his children, sometimes his siblings) long ranty emails, forwarding 'The Truth' about 'Covid lies'.

He uses terms like 'face nappy' for mask, 'sheeple' for anyone who doesn't agree with him, and talks about 'that commie on sage' - not sure if he means Whitty or Valence or someone else.

He is convinced that his grandchildren are in grave danger of hospitalisation if we have them vaccinated.

He doesn't listen to reason - I've tried telling him that no-one has offered to vaccinate my children yet, that all his children and their spouses are double vacc'ed (we did think long and hard about accepting the vaccine, we're not idiots, and we are all fine.)

He went through a similar phase around the time of Brexit - he was an ardent Leaver.

What can I (we - my siblings have the same problem) do? I don't have the energy to engage with his nonsense. We've already told him not to send on these emails, but he sent 3 just last night. If you argue back he gets very aggressive.

I'm worried about his mental health. Has anyone experienced anything similar / got any ideas about what to do to help him?

FYI so as not to drip feed - 2 of his 4 kids live abroad, myself and one other in the UK, we have our own families / jobs / school aged kids and live 2-3 hours drive from him, so are not in a position to check up on him in person on a frequent basis.

The growth of conspiracy theories has only gotten worse with COVID. It was already something that was dangerously out of control and some articles have reported that it's often a gateway to some very questionable far right groups.

However. There's nothing you can do. Not a thing. I've lost a friend to the same malady...he was a perfectly reasonable man and then he began watching some weird videos on YouTube and that was that.

At 70 he's old enough to make his own choices...it's awful I know.

At least tell him to stop using that idiot term "sheeple".

FortunesFave Thanks - sorry to hear about your friend. It is awful. Especially with a family member.

VeryQuaintIrene - I have... unfortunately he doesn't listen to me.

I know from reading about Americans who have fallen hard for the far-right QAnon conspiracy theories that social isolation can play a big factor in someone getting sucked in. I understand that none of his children live within dropping in distance but does he have a social life, or is most of his time spent alone at home?

Just be glad you don’t live close to him. Tell him you’ll talk to him about other things, other than that leave him to it. He won’t listen to you so just don’t bother.

He’s entitled to his views but you don’t have to engage with them…. Delete, delete, delete.

Warn him again not to send you the emails tell him you will not discuss this with him at all and will block his email if he does this again

Refuse to engage with him on this matter

@AbitSceptical do you think your Dad could be lonely / depressed as sometimes becoming obsessed with a particular subjects such as Covid conspiracy theories can signal loneliness or desperation for company. Does he have friends nearby who he could go out for a walk in the park with?

He's obviously spending too long on the internet so he needs some form of distraction. I think asking him to stop forwarding you emails will just fire him up even more to look for more 'evidence', basically rebelling like a teenager. Some elderly people can be gullible and can get sucked in easily. Maybe he has been contacted by scammers or he has 'subscribed' to some fee paying strange forum?

Can you encourage him to take up a new hobby like gardening and then he might become obsessed with finding out about certain plants or shrubs etc... then you could ask him for advice about your own garden and go from there...

Thank you all for taking the time to reply - it's interesting to see a range of views.

@DamsonJammyBastard He has no social life at all. He works at home online - he has to work because he made crap decisions about money (he 'invests' money in risky deals and one cost him his savings). He used to go to the gym pre-covid but I don't think he has rejoined. He is an extreme introvert... although when we do see him, he doesn't stop talking.

@CityCommuter thanks for your thoughtful comments - yes he could well be lonely and depressed. He has no nearby friends at all - he has never had any friends, just colleagues. But of course they are all online now. He used to have a fairly active sporting life but this has also stopped.

I spoke to my brother earlier and he has also thought about Dad being vulnerable to spammers. He doesn't have much money (thus still working).

He used to love gardening but now lives in a rented house and can't be bothered with it. I grew some courgette plants last year, and gave him 2, and he spent ages digging a spot for them and was so pleased with them.

He's a nice guy when he's himself. It's just this extreme politics I can't stand. And he's quite sexist in an old man kind of way.

How very totalitarian of you!

@AbitSceptical

Thank you all for taking the time to reply - it's interesting to see a range of views.

@DamsonJammyBastard He has no social life at all. He works at home online - he has to work because he made crap decisions about money (he 'invests' money in risky deals and one cost him his savings). He used to go to the gym pre-covid but I don't think he has rejoined. He is an extreme introvert... although when we do see him, he doesn't stop talking.

@CityCommuter thanks for your thoughtful comments - yes he could well be lonely and depressed. He has no nearby friends at all - he has never had any friends, just colleagues. But of course they are all online now. He used to have a fairly active sporting life but this has also stopped.

I spoke to my brother earlier and he has also thought about Dad being vulnerable to spammers. He doesn't have much money (thus still working).

He used to love gardening but now lives in a rented house and can't be bothered with it. I grew some courgette plants last year, and gave him 2, and he spent ages digging a spot for them and was so pleased with them.

He's a nice guy when he's himself. It's just this extreme politics I can't stand. And he's quite sexist in an old man kind of way.

Love-bombing works for Them; maybe it would work for you! Get the whole family to send him long emails every day about other, more optimistic things: there must be some good news around that you can share with him, which doesn't mention covid!

I just watched a doc called The Brainwashing of My Dad. American based so not totally relevant as a lot of it is based around Fox News. But interesting nonetheless. You’re not alone in this. Lots of people have lost family members to the alt right.

Honestly what’s wrong with being anti-lockdown, anti-woke and pro-Brexit? (I’ll give you the vaccine though)

Sounds more like you don’t like his way of expressing these views rather than the views themselves (or at least, you should be)

I would talk to him about the way he engages, not necessarily the content.

I listen to a radio show about this phenomena and a psychologist thinks these people should be viewed as having been sucked into a cult. They have already been told what "non believers" will say and have a counterargument already brainwashed in. She said the best way to do it was to consistently but calmly refute each assertion with facts but to not expect a change quickly. It is very scary to watch.

It’s not about whether you’re anti lockdown, it’s the extremeness of it. And also the amount of anger and ranting that some people can do.

[quote CityCommuter]@AbitSceptical do you think your Dad could be lonely / depressed as sometimes becoming obsessed with a particular subjects such as Covid conspiracy theories can signal loneliness or desperation for company. Does he have friends nearby who he could go out for a walk in the park with?

He's obviously spending too long on the internet so he needs some form of distraction. I think asking him to stop forwarding you emails will just fire him up even more to look for more 'evidence', basically rebelling like a teenager. Some elderly people can be gullible and can get sucked in easily. Maybe he has been contacted by scammers or he has 'subscribed' to some fee paying strange forum?

Can you encourage him to take up a new hobby like gardening and then he might become obsessed with finding out about certain plants or shrubs etc... then you could ask him for advice about your own garden and go from there...[/quote]
Unfortunately this won't help. We're losing a family member who is young, sociable, has a family, etc. down the conspiracy rabbit hole too. I wonder if waiting it out is the best option, and hoping it will get less aggressive over time. There seems to be little else we can do.

@UsedUpUsername

Honestly what’s wrong with being anti-lockdown, anti-woke and pro-Brexit? (I’ll give you the vaccine though)

Sounds more like you don’t like his way of expressing these views rather than the views themselves (or at least, you should be)

I would talk to him about the way he engages, not necessarily the content.

It becomes the same thing, where family members say please can we change the subject, or I respect our differences let's talk about something else or whatever but it doesn't work - the person just gets more ranty and angry and insists point blank on talking about it, then gets more and more offensive with terms like sheeple and brainwashing.

I've lost my mum to something similar, although we haven't spoken since before Covid, so I'm not sure what her Covid views are. In our case, there has been no happy resolution - she has asked me not to contact her, and has basically disowned me.

I hope that things work out better for you. The main thing I would have done differently is that I wish I'd found alternative, neutral ways of keeping in touch, like sending photographs and music so that she knew I was thinking of her without touching on our disagreements.

Perhaps more gardening since your two courgette plants gave him so much pleasure? You can grow cut and come again salads in deep small trays on a window. I know it's 3 hours away for you and your sibling in the UK but could you visit for a weekend and take him out? Do you know his neighbours or anyone who can drop in?

As PP have said, isolation doesn't help and isolated people get addicted to the web. Which can simply with its algorithms feed people more of what they believe and reinforce their stereotypes.

BTW it's not always extreme right. Corbyn's brother is extreme left. AFAIK it's called the horseshoe effect, where extremists on right and left agree on some issues and tactics.

Yes. The very fact that he uses this rhetoric instead of his own words is evidence of the cultish tribal nature of the people embracing these conspiracy theories. It is filling a psychological need for him. A quick google shows you are far from alone, and there is help out there. However the advice is not to ridicule since it is rooted in low self esteem and a need for certainty in uncertain times, but to engage with facts and argument.

I am not sure if I was getting three rant filled emails a night that I would have the time or energy. I feel the same about my parents and Brexit, though they are older. I long ago stopped trying to argue with them on the facts, it is emotional for them, appealed to emotions forged in wartime childhood. They have become racist too. So we just don't mention it.

In any case since 2016 they have declined cognitively so it just makes me want to enjoy the time we have left together.

Anyway a couple of articles you may find interesting

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/nov/29/how-to-deal-with-a-conspiracy-theorist-5g-covid-plandemic-qanon

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/28/if-your-friends-or-family-have-fallen-for-an-internet-conspiracy-cult-heres-what-you-should-do

OP, in my opinion, you have to be realistic about what you can do. Yes, he can hold whatever views he wants, but from what you have added (3 ranty emails in one night!) it does seem that that it is becoming bigger in your Dad’s lift than it has to be, because he is bored/lonely.

Your gardening info hits on a useful start. I’d suggest a bigger garden project. You may need to invest the time to help start it (like you grew the corgette plants to start with), but perhaps a weekend trip to set him up with balcony boxes or something, and then you can exchange photos of what’s growing and recipes for the corvettes etc. how old are your children? An email from them about learning to make lasagne with homegrown tomatoes and will he make one too, to compare?

Perhaps long term, you can get him involved in a community garden or an allotment etc. This gives him a healthy hobby, meeting similar people, and there is less time to spend on his alt, right views. But start small.

I would also enlist siblings. If they are concerned like you. Perhaps those far away could need help with their gardening (photos and request for advice as to why my pumpkins failed this year? What to plant in winter?) is there a sport he likes or used to like? A family WhatsApp where you all chat about a football team or something.

My father got surprisingly into birds and bees (separately!) in his later years. He had two bee hives, attended bee meetings and was so proud of the honey he produced and gave all of us. He also really enjoyed his birdhouse, sending us photos of the birds that visited each day. Both hobbies came out of the blue to us, but bring him a lot of pleasure.

There are books where Grandparents write down their memories to pass on to grandchildren. Perhaps one of those, or do the kids have a school project that requires his help? (Interviewing someone who’s lived through a war/depression/etc).

All these do require work. But what stands out to me if that your Dad’s probably has a natural tendency to these views, but isolation and introversion have made him turn to the Internet, where he has found a bunch of people to emphasis and enforce it. I’d try and pull him out by engaging the other interests and bring him back in the real world. It will be time consuming, but if you confront him head on about the beliefs you know it will end in tears and shouting. So why not give this a chance?

I’ll just add - whatever you try to do, I would do it with the long term aim of linking it to an outside organisation/contact. Like gardening to an eventual allotment. It may be that it never gets that far, but I am not suggesting you do this to continue to keep a burden on you. Rather, you start these interests off, and enthusiastically foster them, but eventually linking them to an external source.

Eg Dad’s is in external bee clubs now for his bees, however the bird watching stayed as just between the family WhatsApp group, and he talks to some people online about it.

I just read an article about an 18 year old survivor of the Parkland shooting who is having to move out of his family home because his father believes he and his fellow survivors are paid actors as part of a global conspiracy. His father was very disturbed psychologically by Covid and the requirement to wear masks, isolated by it from friends and family who were taking sensible precautions, he went online to find some support and got sucked in by the entire narrative. The turning point was when he watched that loony right wing congresswoman harassing people on masks and he signed up to her whole world view of extreme conspiracy theories.

It really is happening to a lot of families.

Tell your dad it's fine to believe whatever it is he wants to believe, but it is not acceptable for him to harass you about it all. Tell him if he sends one more email you will block him, and if he does, then do it.

The “commie” who sits on SAGE is Professor Susan Michie, who is a member of the communist party and a behavioural scientist.

Your father is probably equally worried about you so perhaps you should allow each other the respect of consideration and that you have both seen evidence for both sides and drawn different conclusions?