To be absolutely disgusted that Colin Pitchfork is being released?

[MrsTrustice]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-57737050

He is 61, he easily could have 30 years left to do it again. How the hell are women ever supposed to feel safe when men like this still get a second chance? A government appeal to stop the release was rejected ffs. Who makes these decisions? I feel ill.

Violent criminals like this aren't suitable for rehabilitation, the risk of being wrong is to higher price.

None of them should be released.

Thanks, @Lockheart. Isn't that effectively how Warboys was kept inside - new charges?

Is there such a thing as a whole life sentence in the UK?

@SpindleWhorl

Thanks, *@Lockheart*. Isn't that effectively how Warboys was kept inside - new charges?

Sort of. He was originally convicted and sentenced in 2009, with an indeterminate sentence but minimum 8 years custody.

He was then due to be released from custody in 2018, following his minimum 8-year custodial term, however a successful judicial review was brought against the parole boards decision (unlike the one in Pitchforks case, which failed) - victims were not informed and fresh cases were being prepared. So the parole boards decision was overturned.

Further charges were then brought in 2019, and he was convincted of those and sentenced in the same year to two life sentences, minimum 6 years custody.

Another point to note is that one can still be serving a sentence outside of a prison - a sentence need not be custodial, although the two are frequently confused. Pitchfork will still be serving his sentence, despite living outside the prison estate.

YANBU at all. Child rapists and murderers can never be rehabilitated, he could easily do this again.

@JudgeJ

Is there such a thing as a whole life sentence in the UK?

Yes, there is, although slightly different phrasing is used.

A 'whole life order' is imprisonment for life (custodial) with no possibility of parole, although release may be granted on compassionate grounds.

An 'indeterminate sentence' is used where there is no set date when they will be released. This usually carries a minimum custodial term e.g. of 6 or 10 years, after which parole can be applied for and the remainder of the sentence served outside the prison estate.

Do I agree morally no. But the parole board have deemed him safe.

I can assure you he won't be "roaming free" though.

He will be a MAPPA 1 case, he will have a probation officer, a public protection officer. Exclusion zones (that should he breach, it would be immediate recall) , he will have a very strict licence possibly even a curfew to begin with, that can and will be police checked that he is adhering to it (failure to do so, recall)

He so much as commits a petty crime such as shoplifting he's risking recall.

Having worked with many ex offenders of various crimes ranging from shoplifting to Sexual Offenders and Murderers. Life licence is no joke, and violent offenders such as this a lot of work goes in by multiple agencies to monitor them.

Whilst this is no guarantee, it can never be. Do know he will be watched.

Again morally do I agree, I can hand on heart say no, but we must believe in the justice system, the prison systems recent work on rehabilitation of such offenders and follow the rule of law on custodial sentences and release.

@Youdiditanyway but he couldn't 'easily do it again.' Honestly people need to actually think before posting really. It's almost impossible for him to do this again. I should think he will be tagged for a start before we even get to things like curfews, exclusion zones and daily reporting

I’m not sure sex offenders can ever be rehabilitated just as they get older the levels of violence lessen

Parole boards make mistakes some people should never be free

You can’t test men like this until their are living in the community. Yes they can be carefully monitored but they know how to play the system they know what’s expected of them and they know how to tick all the boxes to show they are behaving

Sometimes parole boards make mistakes sometimes their hands are tied I would lien to see more full life terms

Of course he could easily rape and murder again. He might decide it's worth the risk and the possible punishment to do it again once he has the opportunity. It's not as if offenders out on licence never ever reoffend, even those on this MAPPA 1 level monitoring. Perhaps @MistressOfEvilMaleficent knows what the one year serious reoffending rate is for MAPPA 1 offenders?

Yes he could be tagged yes he could have to follow curfews have restriction zones and monitored for a change in behaviour but these type of people become very adept at working around this

That doesn’t stop people it just his team that there are warning signs what stops them is a desire to no longer harm others

@AssassinatedBeauty

Of course he could easily rape and murder again. He might decide it's worth the risk and the possible punishment to do it again once he has the opportunity. It's not as if offenders out on licence never ever reoffend, even those on this MAPPA 1 level monitoring. Perhaps *@MistressOfEvilMaleficent* knows what the one year serious reoffending rate is for MAPPA 1 offenders?

AssassinatedBeauty it's high, I know that, sadly it is, which is why I stated there's no guarantee.

But I don't want people thinking he will be released from prison and just left to roam free. That isn't the case.

I don't morally agree with his release. And yes there is a risk of his re offending, what that is, I don't know I'm not privy to his OASYS report, but the parole board would have been. So I can't comment on his individual risk to the public, but for the parole board to agree his release it's not going to be "very high"

But again none of this can guarantee no re-offending I understand that, and I completely understand the outrage on a moral and compassionate level.

But the system is what it is, and right now there is no reform on the horizon of that system.

[quote PercyPigandMe]@Youdiditanyway but he couldn't 'easily do it again.' Honestly people need to actually think before posting really. It's almost impossible for him to do this again. I should think he will be tagged for a start before we even get to things like curfews, exclusion zones and daily reporting [/quote]
He’ll find a way around this if he finds the opportunity. You really can’t rehabilitate animals like him.

I don't think he will be picking up his hideous little hobby any time soon tbh. He's been wandering around for a long long time now on day release anyway. So I don't think the concern is that he will immediately be looking for ways to pop out and kill a child.

But I do believe that a man like this shouldn't be released. Why should he have the relative freedoms of being able to pop to the shop for nice food or go for a walk or have a swim? It's just depressing but then; as I said previously, you either believe in our justice system and rehabilitation or you don't. And I do believe in it on the whole. I've also not seen this man's reports etc etc

Just heard one of his victim's, Dawn, mum, speaking (from 2015) on the radio. Just how devastating for the families. And we know that if he wants to rape and even kill again, he will find a way. It really is a man's world isn't it? Just shocking.

And Dawn's uncle talking about it on women's hour within the context of men's violence against women and girls. And what message his release gives to women and girls, especially in the current context. Good for him to say this.

Do any violent offenders sit in front of a parole board and say - yes I'm still a danger?

Remember every time something like this happens there are usually swathes of people willing to come forward and say what a good man they were, good father, good friend, quiet man, looked after his family.

And we wonder how they manage to manipulate society into not seeing them as dangerous, violent scum who do not deserve to live a free life.

And yet the Parole Board are meant to be able to see through this facade? Do they use crystal balls?
Regardless of whether or not he'll do this again, he has not paid his debt to society, to the families of the victims.
Rehabilitation for this type of crime (along with a few choice others) shouldn't be on the table.

I saw Dawn's uncle speaking on the news last night. It was very moving and upsetting, but I'm so glad he's speaking up about this travesty.

It’s hard to understand this decision when he has, in effect, already reoffended. He repeated the same crime 3 years after the first.

@Ghosttile

It’s hard to understand this decision when he has, in effect, already reoffended. He repeated the same crime 3 years after the first.

And he was charged with both crimes and has served the minimum custodial sentence able to be imposed at the time for both crimes.

It's not hard to understand this decision if you have even the most tenuous grasp of how our judicial system works.

The minimum term is 30 years but he doesn’t have to be released after 30 years.

Thinking about this more and reading other posts on here I think that TBH it’s difficult.

We all come to opinions based on emotional responses. We believe that the man will re-offend again, that he is essentially still a danger to society, that morally he should never be released.

But while I agree that on a moral level he should serve a life sentence, there is actually no evidence that he has not been rehabilitated, and we are not privy to the information that the parole board have seen.

None of the people here would be fit to sit on a parole board, because you have to be completely impartial in the face of the evidence in front of you. Personal opinion can never come into it. Ever. So it’s possible, likely even, that there are members of the parole board who have a moral issue with this man being released, but who because of their role on the board have to put that view aside and look at the evidence, impartially.

And it was 33 years ago. We don’t know what has happened in that time, and at the time he was sentenced whole life tariffs didn’t exist.

But agreeing he is fit for release doesn’t mean that someone is in favour of the murder of rape and young girls. It means that we live in a society who believe in rehabilitation not just punishment.

If we go down the route of believing in punitive justice only where does that stop? Because what you or I may find a lesser crime could be considered morally reprehensible to someone else, and who should be the one to decide which crimes can be rehabilitated and which can’t?

Plenty of criminals are in and out of prison all their lives even for petty crime. Should we just lock them up without a view to rehabilitation just because they clearly will never change?

Of course rape and murder is different, but the reality is that if you have a two-tiered system then you are creating a slippery slope towards a society which believes solely in punitive justice.

Let’s take a possible example:

A man abuses children and people believe he should be castrated.

A woman abuses her own children and some people (myself included) believe she should be sterilised to prevent her from having any more.

You probably wouldn’t find many people who would disagree with the principle of castrating the paedophile, but sterilising the woman would be considered a very grey area because while to some it is black and white, to others it is an infringement on her human rights, bodily autonomy etc.

So do we castrate the paedophile because public opinion believes we should, while allowing the woman to carry on having more children because public opinion is that she is entitled to bodily autonomy?

Or do we work on the basis that both need to be brought to justice in their own way for the individual crimes they have committed, but based on the justice system and not the opinions of the emotionally charged general public?

@poorbuthappy

Do any violent offenders sit in front of a parole board and say - yes I'm still a danger?

Remember every time something like this happens there are usually swathes of people willing to come forward and say what a good man they were, good father, good friend, quiet man, looked after his family.

And we wonder how they manage to manipulate society into not seeing them as dangerous, violent scum who do not deserve to live a free life.

And yet the Parole Board are meant to be able to see through this facade? Do they use crystal balls?
Regardless of whether or not he'll do this again, he has not paid his debt to society, to the families of the victims.
Rehabilitation for this type of crime (along with a few choice others) shouldn't be on the table.

poorbuthappy the offender can say what they want, but the parole board will have reports from their offender manager, the prison system. On their behaviour, courses they have done and also any therapy. Psychological reports can also be given.

When you go in to the prison system you aren't just hoofed in through the door and that's that, crack on. Any poor behaviour, offences whilst in the estate are recorded and also punished if they are illegal. Such assault on Prison officers. Or assault on fellow prisoners.

The parole board will see and know how they behaved, what steps they have taken to address their offending , if they have shown recourse or guilt for their action or even admitted guilt. Some never admit guilt and therefore are unlikely to get parole.

This is how they progress through their catagories, most male offenders even sex offenders begin at Catagory B, then Cat C, then Cat D and even then can be released to a approved premises/bale hostel before being put on licence and live in the community.

Again I don't morally agree, but the parole board will have been privy to swathes of evidence and information on the offender to base their judgment on.