To think it's good England football team came second ...

[Dustyboots]

It fine to come second. It's good for our kids to know that and to see how well the team did to get to the final and how well they played anyway. It's good for us all to know that coming first isn't the all important thing.

And this has shone a light on something far more important than winning - racist bullying - I feel like we're actually talking about it now. The racists and the idiots in government are having a proper light shone on them.

This feels an important moment that wouldn't have happened if we'd have won.

How many yellow cards did England get?

And Italy?

Like anything most of these, other than Chiellini's, could be debated, same way it could be debated that English players should have received yellow cards for tackles that they didn't. It's all part of the game and none of it changes the score or that Italy deservedly won.

Anyway, I feel like this is derailing from the OP who is raising a really strong point about how racism has been highlighted as a result. I don't agree that it's about whose fans deserve them to win, but I do think that the reaction to the loss has highlighted the extent to which racism is still prevalent in the UK, something which some people still try to deny.

@MrsIsobelCrawley

Any poster who claims that racism in England fans is just a social media problem is either a complete fool or a liar.

Literally no-one has claimed that though

Or at least not on this thread anyway.

If we are referring to reasons to win that aren't based upon the football, the England team 'definitely' deserved to win. Ignorant generalisations abound about fans, the team were fans once, not that long ago when you look at their ages, are you suggesting these are the kind of people that don't deserve to win? players that once were fans without playing.

I'm Scottish, wasn't fussed who won. But I really don't like penalties as it's on the individual rather than the team. Really feel for the guys who are receiving abuse for missing their penalties.

@FlaminEckVera, some posters don't have an original thought in their head.

@HmmmmmmInteresting

I said what I said

@HmmmmmmInteresting Yesss! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

@HmmmmmmInteresting

I'm glad they didn't win because the fans don't deserve it. They certainly don't deserve these players.

The 'non-fans' - real fans - respect the team!

Yes I've seen the video close up from all angles & disagree
Also Chiellini pushed Sterling over in the second half, you could see him give Sterling a hard push with his hand.
Chiellini should have been sent off when he attacked Saka.
If Italy had won without doing the above then yes they would have deserved their win.

Italy are a much more experienced team and have not lost a match in some time. England were far less experienced and did well to make it to the final. They beat some good teams to get there and should be given credit for that.

@memberofthewedding

Italy are a much more experienced team and have not lost a match in some time. England were far less experienced and did well to make it to the final. They beat some good teams to get there and should be given credit for that.

Tbf they couldn’t even beat the worst team in the tournament Scotland .

@HmmmmmmInteresting what a stupid comment. You're glad that a group of young men who put their all into this competition didn't win due to a bunch of idiot fans

@JingsMahBucket thank you 😁

It's good for our kids to know that and to see how well the team did to get to the final and how well they played anyway. It's good for us all to know that coming first isn't the all important thing.

I have never been able to wrap my head around this mentality. It’s like kids getting “participation” awards. If there’s no additional benefit, or virtue, or gain in winning - why compete? It’s not shameful to lose. But it’s amazing to be the winner.

Losing the final isn’t necessary to children seeing that the team played well. They got to the last two, so, yeah, they’re obviously either the best or second best team in the whole tournament.

Winning IS what matters. Period.

SEPARATELY, children need to learn (1) to lose with grace and respect for the skills with which the winning players won (2) to learn from failures so that next time they can be winners (3) not to throw racist, irrelevant, ignorant, pathetic, cowardly abuse at whomever they decide was at fault for the loss.

PMSL at the suggestion that football (racist) hooligans are a product of the current UK Govt and isn't a problem in other countries.

These dumbfucks have been around in lots of countriesf or a long time.

You must be a little bit young OP, or rather forgetful, there's been a few laws passsd since the 1970's, and full-on hooliganism, that has reduced this scummy behaviour quite substantially.

Thinking about & from reading other threads I think I get what @HmmmmmmInteresting is saying.
If a large group of England fans are going to be so bloody racist & as a thick of mince too then yes they don't deserve the pleasure of the England team winning.
Rashford, Saka & Sancho are great players & Southgate said they were the best in taking penalties whilst training.
It's a big thing to take on the responsibility of taking penalties for your country at a such a young age.
I wanted to give young Saka a big hug too & tell him he did his best & did us proud, but not to get too despondent as there will be other games & as he gets older he will get even better & his confidence will grow & he will score those penalties.
Unfortunately I too knew what was coming if those lads missed (the racist taunts) though I really hoped I would be proved wrong.
And I bet your bottom dollar if Kane & Maguire had missed their penalties then they wouldn't have received half as much aggro let alone been abused because of their skin colour.
Gazza became a national hero when he cried after he missed his penalty in Italia 90.
Saka gets hateful racist abuse for crying when he misses his penalty.
The reason. It's because Gazza has White skin & Saka has Black skin & those racist numbskulls think black skin is lesser than white skin.
It should not be like this.
Black skin is good not lesser!

[quote FlaminEckVera]@Moanranger

The better team won, more experienced, better footwork. England tried hard, but talent won.

PMSL what a load of old cobblers.

Italy won on a penalty shoot out. Not much of a glorious win is it? It's a fucking lottery, and pure LUCK that they won. Fuck all to do with being more talented than England. Italy were aggressive and thuggish and at LEAST 3 or 4 of them should have been sent off. You're deluded if you think their players are more talented than England's players

@HmmmmmmInteresting

I'm glad they didn't win because the fans don't deserve it. They certainly don't deserve these players.

Also a load of old cobblers. Only a small minority of England fans are racist thugs. Saying we don't deserve to win is pathetic. Like a few others have said, some people on here act like no other country has racist thugs for football fans... The fans in many countries are WAY worse than England fans.

And @Dustyboots YABU![/quote]
Eh?! Italy were favourites to win in Europe as they’re probably the best team in Europe at the moment. Let’s not let disappointment cloud our judgement.

And anyone who thinks only ENGLISH football fans are racist, is either a complete fool or a liar.

So that makes it ok @FlaminEckVera?

Typical minimising of racism on MN.

Italy won on a penalty shoot out. Not much of a glorious win is it? It's a fucking lottery, and pure LUCK that they won. Fuck all to do with being more talented than England. Italy were aggressive and thuggish and at LEAST 3 or 4 of them should have been sent off. You're deluded if you think their players are more talented than England's players

Do you know how many times I've heard similar comments in my lifetime? Grow up - the game is over, England lost, move on. As for it being a "lottery" that Italy won I can think of another sporting event which England won on a ridiculous technicality - it doesn't just happen to other countries.

@Moanranger

The better team won, more experienced, better footwork. England tried hard, but talent won.

Talent??? Did you see the match? Dirty tricks.

@pollylocketpickedapocket football is full of diving and divers, they’re all at it and England team are no angels either.

It's not a small minority of English football fans that are racist and thuggish. If it was a small minority why is it DV goes up 36% after a losing game?

YABU those young men gave everything and conducted themselves with dignity throughout the tournament, even when literally being grabbed by the scruff of the neck and dragged to the ground. So no I don't think it's good they didn't win.

Well done to Italy, champions of Europe.

Italy won on a penalty shoot out. Not much of a glorious win is it? It's a fucking lottery, and pure LUCK that they won. Fuck all to do with being more talented than England. Italy were aggressive and thuggish and at LEAST 3 or 4 of them should have been sent off. You're deluded if you think their players are more talented than England's players

Italy were the better team throughout the entire tournament. Nothing to do with being a “lottery” or “pure luck” and everything to do with talent 😂

Italy had 6 shots on target compared to England’s 2. Italy had 66% ball possession.

And all this stuff about “aggressive and thuggish”. England could have easily picked up yellow cards in first half which Ref let them away with.

You can really tell the posters who don’t normally watch football when they come out with all this rubbish 😂 don’t have a clue.

"Gazza became a national hero when he cried after he missed his penalty in Italia 90."

He didn't. He cried because he was booked and would then miss the final (if they'd won).
But the general point is fair.