to think that in the future obesity will be a mental illness

[postitgirl]

ok , bear with me....
I've been watching a few programmes about anorexia, I don't know why, they've just 'popped up' on netflix and amazon, and it's so interesting how even though people with anorexia are literally starving themselves, they still don't eat. So I started thinking, I've been trying to lose weight for years and year and years, and it's so bloody hard, because there is a thing in my brain that equates pleasure with over-eating crap. I go on a diet, and my willpower lasts for a few days, if I'm lucky, and then this overwhelming urge to break the diet, to binge, to eat chocolate and all the bad things, not just a small square of chocolate, like a bar, plus ice-cream etc etc. Any of us who struggle know what i'ts like. And it's getting worse as I get older. I'm becoming more attached to that feeling of 'release' when I do overeat... I'ts like a stress reliever to my brain - I'm suddenly a nicer person to my kids, I feel chilled, I feel satisfied, I feel happy, but of course i'ts a vicious cycle of self-hatred etc etc.
So it just occurred to me that in the future, maybe the treatment for obesity will be similar to that of anorexia, with the blame being taken out of the equation, that it will be treated literally as a mental disease - a disease where your mind is taken over, in a similar way to the way anorexia takes over. just the way some of the young girls were talking about how it was the "anorexia talking" even thuogh they knew they were making themselves ill, and could even die, the anorexia wouldn't let them eat.
Just as someone who has struggled mentally with my weight for all these years - i'ts like the "fat" talking. Cos when I'm "sane" of course I want to stop doing it, I want to get fit, and slim etc etc. And I know what I should be eating and what I shouldnt I could probably get a degree in nutrition at this stage I've done so much research on what I should eat and not eat.
What do you all think - can anyone relate.

I had very similar thoughts, OP, after watching the Louis Theroux documentary - some of the thought processes seemed so glaringly similar. But, I also totally agree that sugar/carb addiction is a very real thing and it's difficult to separate mental health causes of obesity from addiction and the associated insulin/hormonal issues.

It's very different from anorexia though.

A lot of obesity is actually caused by physical reasons/illness/medication/injury and nothing to do with mental health.

@Willyoujustbequiet

It's very different from anorexia though.

A lot of obesity is actually caused by physical reasons/illness/medication/injury and nothing to do with mental health.

Even compulsive or binge eating disorders, while psychological eating disorders, are very different to anorexia. The insanity and obsessiveness of anyone suffering from anorexia, the high mortality rate (yes, of course obesity has health risks which will affect life span but anorexia kills in the here and now), the voices, the destructiveness It's no wonder anorexics have one of the highest suicide rates of any psychiatric disorder. It's a very different disorder to binge or compulsive eating or even bulimia (although they can be co-morbid) and far more deadly. It's not the flipside of obesity.

the voices, the destructiveness Yes the voices are rarely mentioned but extremely destructive with anorexia. I use to go on a 5 mile run pounding on my tiny stick thin legs with zero calories inside.
It's no wonder anorexics have one of the highest suicide rates of any psychiatric disorder.
Exactly the condition is the start of he process whereas with obesity the process eventually causes the condition.

I know it’s strictly speaking off topic but there seems to be a fair few fellow ‘mum-of-an-anorexia-sufferer’ on this thread. It’s well worth reading Tabitha Farrar. My d has gained 10kg in three months under her own steam and is eating freely, still dealing with body image but after 6 years of this I can now breathe, and not feel that I need to watch what she eats.

Body image stuff is a symptom and a side issue IMO. My d has been through lots of treatment, inpatient etc, Tabitha’s approach of challenging all restrictive behaviours, not just food, has been life changing for her.

I can also recommend an excellent book

Decoding Anorexia
www.amazon.com/Decoding-Anorexia-Breakthroughs-Science-Disorders/dp/0415898676?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

It made everything make perfect sense to us.

I find this whole topic fascinating. I was obese, I lost a lot of weight and now I exercise religiously and regularly, but I still overeat. I find myself (five years after losing eight stone) really struggling with food. If I 'deny' myself crap food completely, then I'm ok and I keep myself on an even keel. Once the floodgates of chocolate or biscuits or cake etc are opened, then I'll eat until I feel unwell.

I have two theories on this. The first is that I went to boarding school aged 9-18, so food was limited for me by the institution. There were hardly any treats, portions were given to you, we didn't even really have pocket money to buy food. So once I went to university and food was plentiful and available, I went completely mad and ate it all! So even now, I get a strange sense of pleasure when I buy whatever I want whenever I want (and I left school in 1992 so A LONG TIME AGO ).

The second is that my mother was an incredible cook and food, preparation, eating as a family, celebrating, all revolved around the kitchen. So I associate food with happiness and love.

Have I got a mental illness? No I don't think so. But I do have an eating disorder that was probably triggered by trauma (boarding school/being away from love/family/food)? Most certainly.

I think the two main reasons that people overeat are 1) metabolic issues and 2) stress. If you limit your calories and get really hungry all the time, it’s only a matter of time until you give in because that’s miserable. In my experience, the solution for this is to decrease sugar in your diet and start fasting for a period of time each day (intermittent fasting). I have reduced my hunger through eating in an 8-10 hour window each day.

Stress is a much more complex issue. If you are used to using food as a plaster for emotional pain, there can be problems. I think it’s a very common experience and most people do it sometimes. I manage my eating fairly well, but I am always nervous about losing control due to stress. I have had quite bad anxiety since I was a child and have used food all my life to self-soothe.

The answer is to reduce stress in your life as much as possible and find better coping mechanisms, but that’s easier said than done. Food is tempting to me because it’s always available and instantly changes my mood (particularly sugar). I don’t think I’d necesarily be classified as having a binge eating disorder as my binges tend to be smallish, but I completely understand it.

I firmly believe it is linked to mental health. I managed to get down to just overweight whilst family life was good abd I was feeling happy with very little stress. 2 years on I am morbidly obese again as under so much stress and feeling so down. Blaming people for being obese is totally counter productive. I renumber having a surprise pregnancy following a bereavement and'I'was in control again. After harsh words from a bitchy midwife I briefly lose the plot again.

This lockdown tested a lot of people and their MH. Especially DC I'm not sure if it was boredom.
I know a few DC who have piled on 2 or 3 stone over lockdown. My neighbours boy is 9 went from a slim boy now exteremly overweight.
Most of the DC have piled it on.

@EmeraldShamrock

This lockdown tested a lot of people and their MH. Especially DC I'm not sure if it was boredom. I know a few DC who have piled on 2 or 3 stone over lockdown. My neighbours boy is 9 went from a slim boy now exteremly overweight. Most of the DC have piled it on.

My ds has never been overweight but during the first lockdown I noticed him put on quite a bit of weight and his belly was definitely becoming flabby. That's despite our daily walks and trying to keep him active...but the not walking to school, no pe, no weekend football definitely took its toll. As soon as he could go back to these things, the weight fell off

My DS did too, it is slowly coming off.

It's really sad to read some of the posts on here Kazzyhoward, chickenyhead to name a couple. At the same time it's a little bit reassuring to know that eating disorders are hugely complex and that there are others out there who believe that more help should be given for overcoming eating disorders.

I have disordered eating, my weight is ok now but it can fluctuate up and down really wildly depending on my mindset. I can trigger anorexic/overeating behaviour based on my mood at the time and it's so stressful. I had amphetamines given to me at 8 years old because of weight gain; I was going through early puberty. All that did was to reinforce feelings of not being good enough as I was. I was a child. :(

I think the reason why people not suffering from anorexia laud it so loudly is because it is a visible demonstration of control. Listening to anorexia sufferers in the grip of the disease, trying to get well, they know for a fact that they no longer have any control at all. Just like binge-eating disorder - no control.

To me, anorexia/binge eating is the same coin, just the flipside. There needs to be more help available, there just does.

I think the complexity is for a lot of people it is mental health related, but for a lot of others it’s simply not. When I gain weight it’s not about my mental health. It’s me being lazy, greedy, comfortable, can’t be arsed. I’d rather have a chocolate bar than get my arse in the gym mentality.

I’ve a friend who is obese, she’s currently happy as Larry and living her best life. Ask her if she thinks she’s a mental health problem and she’d laugh and tell you she loves food and hates exercise.

The complexity is peoole are overweight for many reasons, from mental health, to enjoying food and not liking exercise. It’s shockingly easy to gain weight, a few weeks of sitting on the sofa eating indulgent meals and snacks, will prove it.

Staying a healthy weight fir many people, myself included, takes hard work, watching what you eat, exercise etc. It’s effort.every day effort. And the ability to make that effort depends on many things and not always good mental health.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

It's really sad to read some of the posts on here Kazzyhoward, chickenyhead to name a couple. At the same time it's a little bit reassuring to know that eating disorders are hugely complex and that there are others out there who believe that more help should be given for overcoming eating disorders.

I have disordered eating, my weight is ok now but it can fluctuate up and down really wildly depending on my mindset. I can trigger anorexic/overeating behaviour based on my mood at the time and it's so stressful. I had amphetamines given to me at 8 years old because of weight gain; I was going through early puberty. All that did was to reinforce feelings of not being good enough as I was. I was a child. :(

I think the reason why people not suffering from anorexia laud it so loudly is because it is a visible demonstration of control. Listening to anorexia sufferers in the grip of the disease, trying to get well, they know for a fact that they no longer have any control at all. Just like binge-eating disorder - no control.

To me, anorexia/binge eating is the same coin, just the flipside. There needs to be more help available, there just does.

Sorry, completely disagree that anorexia/binge eating is the same coin. It's absolutely not the case. And I'm not saying one is better or worse than the other but they are VERY different illnesses. Both in their aetiology, symptoms and in the response and treatment. Anorexia is a biological brain disease, it's highly genetic. Binge eating is nowhere near as genetic and is far more closely connected with environment. You see this when comparing incidence rates between fraternal and identical twins. Anorexia is more than an eating disorder, it's very much a psychiatric illness (just encapsulated around food). I know binge eating is dangerous and people suffer terribly so I'm not minimising but it is just SO different to anorexia.

habibibibi that's your opinion; obviously not mine and not that of the health professionals that I've engaged with over the last 40 years.

Both are mental disorders and hugely destructive yet only binge-eating disorder seems to carry a stigma. That needs to change so that appropriate and timely treatment/counselling is available to all who need it.

Sorry, completely disagree that anorexia/binge eating is the same coin. It's absolutely not the case.
I think they are very much related when the person becomes incapacitated, obsessive, out of control.
I'm not talking a couple of stone but when the quality is taking from life. I recognised many of the same symptoms, the voices encouraging a binge are similar to the voice telling you do another 50 sit-ups and you can rest for 5 mins.
Both disorders usually ignited by trauma or a non nt mind.
The link between previously known asperger's and anorexic is huge. The cause needs treatment and the effect.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

habibibibi that's your opinion; obviously not mine and not that of the health professionals that I've engaged with over the last 40 years.

Both are mental disorders and hugely destructive yet only binge-eating disorder seems to carry a stigma. That needs to change so that appropriate and timely treatment/counselling is available to all who need it.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe It's not my opinion. It's medical fact as shared with me by specialists in the field and from my own research.

A lot has changed over the last 40 years and this is currently a far better understanding of the genetic component of anorexia in the current literature. Happy to provide you with links if you are interested.

Although I'm not in any way minimizing binge eating disorder. It's also closely linked to ADHD and impulsivity which are genetically mediated themselves. It's just not the flipside to anorexia.
Neither illness should be stigmatised and they are, as well as both being poorly understood.

@postitgirl

ok , bear with me.... I've been watching a few programmes about anorexia, I don't know why, they've just 'popped up' on netflix and amazon, and it's so interesting how even though people with anorexia are literally starving themselves, they still don't eat. So I started thinking, I've been trying to lose weight for years and year and years, and it's so bloody hard, because there is a thing in my brain that equates pleasure with over-eating crap. I go on a diet, and my willpower lasts for a few days, if I'm lucky, and then this overwhelming urge to break the diet, to binge, to eat chocolate and all the bad things, not just a small square of chocolate, like a bar, plus ice-cream etc etc. Any of us who struggle know what i'ts like. And it's getting worse as I get older. I'm becoming more attached to that feeling of 'release' when I do overeat... I'ts like a stress reliever to my brain - I'm suddenly a nicer person to my kids, I feel chilled, I feel satisfied, I feel happy, but of course i'ts a vicious cycle of self-hatred etc etc. So it just occurred to me that in the future, maybe the treatment for obesity will be similar to that of anorexia, with the blame being taken out of the equation, that it will be treated literally as a mental disease - a disease where your mind is taken over, in a similar way to the way anorexia takes over. just the way some of the young girls were talking about how it was the "anorexia talking" even thuogh they knew they were making themselves ill, and could even die, the anorexia wouldn't let them eat. Just as someone who has struggled mentally with my weight for all these years - i'ts like the "fat" talking. Cos when I'm "sane" of course I want to stop doing it, I want to get fit, and slim etc etc. And I know what I should be eating and what I shouldnt I could probably get a degree in nutrition at this stage I've done so much research on what I should eat and not eat. What do you all think - can anyone relate.

OP of you read around neurological studies, will power is like a muscle. It needs to be worked constantly to be strengthened and powerful enough to do what you need it to do. Without it we all know (& evolutionary studies are a great place to find out more about this) that our brains conserve energy every single way they can and seek out the easiest quickest sources of easy energy in the planet.

Every time you try to diet you fail because you never work to improve the physiological systems that govern self control, so you always give in (human nature).

You exercise will power and make it stronger through exercise, healthy choices, finding another focus, keeping all bad food away, going through a painful sugar/junk withdrawal, etc. It isn't easy and it's a lot harder for you now, but if you're willing to put the hard work in, you'll do it.

It's absolutely not a mental illness in the way you describe. It's a lack of knowledge over physiology, neurology, the way our evolutionary design works, etc. It's brutal putting the hard work in, it's way easier for me to eat healthier than you right now as I've spent a lifetime programming my body to not desperately crave crap, and to max out my will power.

Must tell my psychiatrist that...

I think it already is treated sort of like that in a way. Hence groups for people who have problems with overeating etc. And there is a tendency to take the blame out of it already too, with people beginning to recognising the role that the food industry play in obesity etc, and recognising that it is in people's natural human instinct to seek out highly calorific foods. That won't stop some people still being judgmental of course.

But being obese isn't in itself a mental health problem, though mental healtg issues can contribute to it and make it more likely. I think the future changes in how obesity is regarded and treated will be more to do with further research into the gut biome, metabolic disorders and features of the Western diet which are promoting ill health.

Although I'm not in any way minimizing binge eating disorder. It's also closely linked to ADHD and impulsivity which are genetically mediated themselves.
ADHD is a comorbidity to ASD in many cases. ASD is strongly linked to anorexia and impulsive eating linked to ADHD,
Both non nt illnesse with many cross overs.
My DS with ASD/ADHD is a compulsive eater, DD with ASD/inattentive ADHD can't eat when anxious.
She's slim he is overweight.

@EmeraldShamrock

Although I'm not in any way minimizing binge eating disorder. It's also closely linked to ADHD and impulsivity which are genetically mediated themselves. ADHD is a comorbidity to ASD in many cases. ASD is strongly linked to anorexia and impulsive eating linked to ADHD, Both non nt illnesse with many cross overs. My DS with ASD/ADHD is a compulsive eater, DD with ASD/inattentive ADHD can't eat when anxious. She's slim he is overweight.

@EmeraldShamrock Yep, true. Inattentive ADHD and anorexia DD over here too. Plus depression and anxiety.

@habibibibi It isn't easy.