Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

I’d say there’s a direct link when the black England players have had to play in away games while fans make monkey gestures at them. It’s gone on for decades and it’s so common that there’s now an official procedure for the referee to follow (which includes verbal warnings over the tannoy system )

www.theguardian.com/football/2019/oct/12/howard-gayle-england-walk-off-racism-bulgaria

I’m white and have no issue with it. In fact all the vitriol that’s been aimed at the three black players who missed those penalties only proves it’s a necessary statement to make.

It's not possible to "end" racism just like it's not possible to "end" rape and theft and murder. There will always be bad people out there.

@Nuffaluff

Answer from white person:

1. There is no problem with taking the knee.

Please do not assume that all white people think the same.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

There isn’t really a suggestion though that random members of the public take the knee, is there?

It is footballers doing it, so it is of cultural significance to them.

@Bollindger

I won't do it because it does nothing. It is for effect, to make some feel better and they then DO NOTHING else. I taught my children skin colour means nothing. Laying the blame for past hurts will not change things it stirs up bad feelings. It also is causing a noticeable divide as per this thread.

The issue is that it isn’t in the past. Racism is alive and well today with black people still being treated as second class citizens. If they weren’t then way were black men 4 times more likely to die of covid. Why are black women 5 times more likely to die in childbirth. Physiologically speaking there is no difference but black people are more likely to suffer from stress induced illnesses because they are constantly having to live in a high stress environment. That feeling of someone walking to closely behind you at night, that’s every minute for my friend she constantly thinks through the implications of what she says as she knows if it can be twisted it will. She’s constantly told in words and actions she’s not really British etc.

Yeah I’d take the knee. It’s not the same as kneeling which is what I notice the majority of objectors are calling it. You definitely kneel when receiving your gong from the Queen, you don’t take the knee.

I was just answering the op's question, which was what else would you like to see done to protest racism. I wasn't suggesting that England players specifically need to do more, I was saying that all celebrities and athletes, black and white, could do other things as well. I don't have any issue with taking the knee at all, but think other things could be done alongside. Of course I don't know how to end racism - if I did then I would have done it already.

Ok, so my Aunt, who is pretty racist but doesn't think she is, she is absolutely ignorant to systemic racism. She hates the idea of taking the knee because she feels it submissive, I have questioned whom she thinks these people are being submissive to, she doesn't know but doesn't like it non the less

I understand others have said it distracts away from the actual issue. So instead of discussing the actual issue of systemic racism, people are talking about wether people should be taking the knee,

I think it's sad people think it's only an American thing and are ignorant to the issue being here right under their noses.

I have no problem with a person taking the knee and it's pretty obvious you don't think every white person thinks it is a problem.

@Nuffaluff

Answer from white person:

1. There is no problem with taking the knee.

Please do not assume that all white people think the same.

I came here to say this!

If it's too American, what form would be acceptable in the UK?

I have no problem with it per se. I don't think it has the effect it should.

Now, if all the players in the Premier League took a stand, with the absolute support of their club, that they will walk off the pitch if there's racism demonstrated to a black player that would have an effect.

Another ‘white person’ who has my own thoughts and opinions than other ‘white people’ and have never had a problem with it!

Because it's not going to make any difference and because if I did it I probably wouldn't be able to get up again.

Seriously though - I'd prefer a more active, positive action, but people can carry on if they think it will help.

White person here: I dont take the knee but that is because I am looking out for potential attacks from racists and fascists, who have been known in my area to infiltrate peaceful BLM demonstrations, when attendees are taking the knee. #BLM

Ohhh and people who harp on about All lives matter, simply don't understand the stance being made.

For me, I think there is a lack of clarity about what it means. Probably my ignorance though. BLM seems to be connected with a lot of very anti police talk which I don't think is helpful, although not surprising. So when I hear things like 'kill the bill' it makes me uncomfortable.

That being said I do support taking the knee generally and I think its a good acknowledgement for some real injustices in our society.

Also, I am a white person (if that wasn't obvious!)

The OP really didn’t imply that all white people had a problem with taking the knee.

She obviously wanted explanations of why some did.

I am white and I have no problem with it. I admire the footballers for doing it, I am horrified at the racism that has been directed at some of them.

Taking the knee to me represents support for BLM. I don’t support their organisation. I don’t want the police to be defunded. It’s possible to support the stand against racism, but not to support taking the knee.

@Secondbellini

The OP really didn’t imply that all white people had a problem with taking the knee.

She obviously wanted explanations of why some did.

Yes, badly worded that's all.

Should probably have been something like...

"Question for white people who have a problem with taking the knee"

I'm mixed. I don't think politics should be in sport.

The same way some people think religion shouldn't be in schools. I personally don't care whether there are Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Greek etc schools. Each to their own.

I think sports, and any, people should be neutral when working - everyone has to be on every other issue - but do what they like on their own time/social media. I'm not going to not like one based on their out of hours beliefs. It's not my business.

And I don't really agree with blm. I think all lives matter and no race should be lauded above any other.

Answer from white person - it is much too subservient - one only kneels to the Sovereign or your husband/wife (if you are that way inclined).

I'm a white middle aged woman and absolutely would take the knee in support of anyone suffering racism. It's upset me so much today to see how those young black men have been treated.

Can't believe a poster actually wrote all lives matter

There’s been a lot of work done in football generally and with the Premier League clubs in particular to keep racist abuse out of the stands. Many clubs have an anonymous text system so that you can report any abuse you hear immediately, during the game, and there are cameras all over the place. There are also stewards who will be looking out for it. Clubs can and do give out lifetime bans for racist abuse. You’re less likely to hear that kind of abuse at higher league games.