AIBU to wonder if the Queen made a grammatical error?

[deardiary66]

The Queen has written a letter to Gareth Southgate ahead of tonight’s football game that includes the words:

“I want to send my congratulations and that of my family to you all”

Is “that” correct here or should it be “those”, as “congratulations” is plural?

I don’t mean to nitpick, but I saw the letter and genuinely wondered what was technically correct!

It’s a mistake. Should be “those”. Somebody will be getting the sack!

that is a relative pronoun and can be either singular or plural. so it's correct

No it isn't. 'That' is not a relative pronoun in the queen's sentence. It's a demonstrative pronoun. 'That' can refer to a plural noun when it's being used as a relative pronoun, but not as demonstrative pronoun.

@lazylinguist

that is a relative pronoun and can be either singular or plural. so it's correct

No it isn't. 'That' is not a relative pronoun in the queen's sentence. It's a demonstrative pronoun. 'That' can refer to a plural noun when it's being used as a relative pronoun, but not as demonstrative pronoun.

Thank you!

That's kind of what I was trying to say, but didn't have the right words.

@lazylinguist

that is a relative pronoun and can be either singular or plural. so it's correct

No it isn't. 'That' is not a relative pronoun in the queen's sentence. It's a demonstrative pronoun. 'That' can refer to a plural noun when it's being used as a relative pronoun, but not as demonstrative pronoun.

@lazylinguist

thanks for explaining!

so should it be "those"?

I'm going back & forth and so confused now!🤣
"that" sounds better to me, but English is not my first language so obviously I won't argue with native English speakers!😁

"My family and I would like to send our congratulations to you all" sounds better.

Unless the implication could be 'send my congratulations and the (single) congratulation of my family (who couldn't be bothered to send more than one congratulation though would have gone overboard if Germany/Greece/Denmark were in the final due to ancestry).

The Queen is one person but she is allowed to refer to herself as 'We'.

Therefore she is also allowed to mess with the singular/plural of anyone and anything else!

The Queen has it correct (of course!). It's correct to say "and that of my family", she is referring to the act - one single act of congratulating someone. It would also be correct to say "congratulations is in order" because if you flip the sentence around you would say "it is in order that I congratulate you".

@Vikingintraining

The Queen has it correct (of course!). It's correct to say "and that of my family", she is referring to the act - one single act of congratulating someone. It would also be correct to say "congratulations is in order" because if you flip the sentence around you would say "it is in order that I congratulate you".

It’s not — congratulations is a plural noun here.

@Vikingintraining

The Queen has it correct (of course!). It's correct to say "and that of my family", she is referring to the act - one single act of congratulating someone. It would also be correct to say "congratulations is in order" because if you flip the sentence around you would say "it is in order that I congratulate you".

@Vikingintraining

so are you saying that "congratulations" is treated & used as a singular noun here?
like "news"?

@Vikingintraining

The Queen has it correct (of course!). It's correct to say "and that of my family", she is referring to the act - one single act of congratulating someone. It would also be correct to say "congratulations is in order" because if you flip the sentence around you would say "it is in order that I congratulate you".

Ok let’s go with this a bit

I like how it sounds and want the Queen to be correct ;

@ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba Yes

@ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba often native speakers of English get it wrong. Unless you believe in the usage beats rules' approach to grammar compared with the Academy approach to control that France seems to take.

Correct English use does evolve. For example, 'beg the question' is almost always used in an 'incorrect' way that doesn't relate to the original meaning in my experience, so much so that the alternative (wrong) way is now accepted I think.

Different countries with native speakers use it differently. Sometimes Americans use the language in ways that sound 'wrong' to a native UK speaker though they occasionally the American usage has retained what was previously correct historical UK usage that evolved away in the UK.

I know there will be many grammatical errors in the above post.

@sashagabadon

I think “that” as she has one family, obviously there is more than one person in the family but just one family. It’s one that could be read either way but I’ll go with the Queen

Can't be - when she says "that", it's referring back to the congratulations, not the family. It should definitely have been "those".

"Those of my family"

I agree with @lazylinguist but I'm also accepting @purrbox 's rule - the Queen can do what she likes!

@Vikingintraining

The Queen has it correct (of course!). It's correct to say "and that of my family", she is referring to the act - one single act of congratulating someone. It would also be correct to say "congratulations is in order" because if you flip the sentence around you would say "it is in order that I congratulate you".

She isn't referring to the act, she's referring to congratulations in the plural. Suppose, for instance, you were telling someone you were sending them some presents and were also including in the package presents from other members of the family. You wouldn't say "I'm sending some presents and that of my family".

The Queen has it correct (of course!). It's correct to say "and that of my family", she is referring to the act - one single act of congratulating someone. It would also be correct to say "congratulations is in order" because if you flip the sentence around you would say "it is in order that I congratulate you".

Sorry, but that's not the case. The grammar rules apply to the actual words used, in the form in which they are used. It's completely irrelevant to call congratulating 'a single act' when the words in the sentence is 'congratulations', which is a plural noun, ratger than 'act', which is singular. The sentence 'Congratulations is in order' is also completely wrong.

thanks for explaining! so should it be "those"? I'm going back & forth and so confused now!🤣 "that" sounds better to me, but English is not my first language so obviously I won't argue with native English speakers!

No worries! Yes it should be 'those'. It would work the same in the three other languages I teach. In fact it would be much more clearly the case in two of them. It's partly the fact that the word 'that' has multiple uses which can cause confusion in English in sentences like these. Depending on what your native language is, I might be able to give an example!

I’m more concerned at the lack of full stops. Absolutely no need for that whole paragraph to be one sentence. Also should have been rewritten to avoid starting a sentence with a number/date.

I love a bit of pedantry, but come on!

She's an elderly woman who never attended school, has no qualifications at all and had to rely on state hand outs her whole life. Not really surprising her grammar isn't perfect.

@Zilla1

I don't have such a belief.
If I know I'm right, because I know a particular rule correctly, then I'll fight to the death!
But as you say languages evolve and I'm not as arrogant as to think I know everything and better.
I'd hate to Anglosplain🤣
that's all

I think “that”. She was referring to her family, singular?

@ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba often native speakers of English get it wrong. Unless you believe in the usage beats rules' approach to grammar compared with the Academy approach to control that France seems to take.

Usage is important, and wilfully using archaically correct language in informal situations often makes people sound like arses. However, that's not the case here. It's not part of an idiomatic phrase or common usage, it's just wrong (whether the queen or Mrs Bloggs down the road says it).

@MrsSkylerWhite

I think “that”. She was referring to her family, singular?

No, she was referring to their congratulations, plural.

As I said before, try replacing it in the sentence.

“I want to send my congratulations and the family of my family to you all”

“I want to send my congratulations and the congratulations of my family to you all”

@donquixotedelamancha

I love a bit of pedantry, but come on!

She's an elderly woman who never attended school, has no qualifications at all and had to rely on state hand outs her whole life. Not really surprising her grammar isn't perfect.

While I entirely agree with this summation, it will have been written by some secretarial underling. Admittedly, one who will have had a better education.