To be annoyed about having a day off declined

[Lira91]

I've been on a WFH campaign for a pretty big company for around 8 months. I booked last Eid off with just under 2 weeks notice because I wasn't sure of the date until it was closer to the time. That one was declined which is reasonable. The second Eid is coming up on the 20th and I put my request through on 23rd June, checked my schedule a couple of days ago to see I've been scheduled for that day, but my request was still pending. I contacted the company stating that I'd really like to have it off since it's Eid and I've not put any requests in otherwise over the last 8 months. They said they'd look into it. I checked the requests this morning to see it had been declined due to 'no availability' 😡 AIBU to think this is just lazy scheduling and they can afford to give me the day off? We're required to give 2 weeks notice at least, I thought booking almost a month in advance would be notice enough! They are also constantly posting reductions throughout the day since it's not busy enough atm so they can afford for people to take the day off paid/unpaid. I'm just extremely annoyed because this will be the first Eid where everything will actually be open and somewhat normal :(

On the date question, my Muslim colleague told me that three senior people in their community have to have seen the moon, then they can declare Eid . So I don’t think it’s as straightforward as forward-predicting the exact dates.

According to google next years second EID is July 10th 2022 Why not book three days to cover the 10th a year in advance.

I suspect the OP knows more about the setting of Eid dates than Google...
A quick look revealed Tower Hamlets Eid dates for schools as only approximate. www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/lgnl/education_and_learning/schools/term_and_holiday_dates.aspx

@Oldsu I'm Jewish and I always request Yom Kippur off. If I was told I'd have to work on that day - literally the holiest day in the Jewish calendar - I would explain to my boss/HR that it's not possible. If they insisted I would seek legal advice.

The Muslim people in my team will often ask me for Eid off and apologetically explain they will need one day off during a narrow date range. If they tell me the range and pin down the exact date nearer the time, I can work with that - and I do.

It really winds me up when other bosses are inflexible with annual leave for the sake of it. It's about give and take with your employees.

There are very few grounds I'd deny someone annual leave, and they're all very reasonable. (Trying to wriggle out of a meeting they don't want to attend, for example.) My team know the ground rules, so they've never tried to book something they know would fall foul of those.

[quote Athrawes]I suspect the OP knows more about the setting of Eid dates than Google...
A quick look revealed Tower Hamlets Eid dates for schools as only approximate. www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/lgnl/education_and_learning/schools/term_and_holiday_dates.aspx[/quote]
It sounds like you are unaware that Google is a search engine that finds information from a variety of sources....

In astronomical terms, we do know the position of the moon at any time in the future, or in the past.

However, Eid is based on the moon being visible to the naked eye and people use different sources, eg Mecca or the local Mosque.

This article says that even a cloudy day can delay Eid, although it sounds like they'll declare Eid on the second day, whether or not the moon is visible? Probably works better in the Middle East than places like the UK, where cloud is less likely.

Obviously we have a general idea of when Eid will be, such as if Ramadan falls for the whole of July then Eid will fall either at the end of July or beginning of August. But as @AvonCallingBarksdale said we do need to wait for the exact dates to be announced.
I also can't really afford to take multiple days off for it, if I want 3 days to be covered by holiday pay, I'd have to go at least 6 weeks with no paid day off to accrue the pay to cover that. I'd be happy to take unpaid days off for Eid if it didn't take such a hit in my pay!

Everyone tries to book Eid off where I work

It's first come first served.... others perhaps got there well before you op

Unfortunate but not the end of the world

Big problem is you only get the date the day before (first Eid) or a couple of weeks out (second) when I worked in London, people lodged their request for eids at the beginning of the year with rough dates and then confirmed nearer the time

I think it is pretty poor and I would always try to accommodate religious holidays as a manager. On the other hand it is peak summer and you could have booked it sooner. Lunar cycles are highly predictable and with a quick google, I have found Eid dates for many years in the future. Overall though, I still think they could have tried a bit harder for one day.

@MiaowMiaow99

Holiday requests in a contact centre are generally based on a % off at any one time, with there being exceptions such as Christmas when volumes drop to the floor and many more are allowed to be off. Also, Christmas day, boxing day are bank holidays so everyone is off regardless. Unfortunately for Eid, business volumes are normal, so the standard % applies. If you employ a large % of muslims, who all want Eid, there will be people who get declined. It isn't discrimination.

In contact centres you can be on a campaign that operates 365 days per year and Xmas and boxing day are normal working days and not everyone is off regardless.

Yes, if being off on any particular day/s is important to you and you're in a job where it has to be booked in advance on a first come first served basis, you need to book both days off as far in the future as possible, especially during peak holiday seasons.

You probably need to be booking next year's Eids now, on that basis.

Some smaller businesses with lots of Muslim staff actually close at Eid. In many places you've no chance of getting a taxi or a takeaway when it's Eid as the businesses are closed, which is fair enough, it's only a couple of days a year.

Yeah I guess it was my mistake for not factoring in summer holidays and restrictions easing :(

@Lira91

Obviously we have a general idea of when Eid will be, such as if Ramadan falls for the whole of July then Eid will fall either at the end of July or beginning of August. But as *@AvonCallingBarksdale* said we do need to wait for the exact dates to be announced. I also can't really afford to take multiple days off for it, if I want 3 days to be covered by holiday pay, I'd have to go at least 6 weeks with no paid day off to accrue the pay to cover that. I'd be happy to take unpaid days off for Eid if it didn't take such a hit in my pay!

Would it be possible to book off a full week or two for Eid 2022 then return all but one or two days? Good luck with this year!

@Lira91 you made me think that restrictions will be extended, as Mr Johnson by his inactions meant in 2020 Eid and Diwali were during periods of restrictions, which would not have been the case if he had responded promptly.

Mr Johnson's historic Islamophobic comments are a matter of record.

OP- I really feel for you. I imagine if Christmas Day were subject to the same fluctuations as Eid, there’d be more understanding from bosses as to the difficulties Muslim people face with booking A/L. As it is, it sounds like your workplace are a bit crap.
FWIW- if I worked at your place I’d happily swap my A/L day with you (or any of my Muslim colleagues) in order for you to celebrate with your family and friends. Especially after a whole month of fasting (which in mid-summer is no mean feat, especially if you’re observing the no water part!!), you should get to spend the ultimate holy day with your loved ones. Our country makes such a song and dance about the importance of food and togetherness at Christmas but has hardly any conception of the need for this on non-Christian holy days. It’s v disappointing in a multi-cultural nation in this day and age.

Why not book next years 6 months+ in advance but book half a week off.

You can then opt to work rather than take annual leave nearer the time so you just take the actual day you need off. I'm sure the company would like the days back for other workers if it's a popular time for holiday requests.

That’s ridiculous. It may be holiday season but asking for one day for a religious festival is perfectly reasonable and surely denial amounts to religious discrimination in the workplace. I’d speak to HR as I’m sure you have a legal right to that day off. I hope it works out for you 🙂

Thank you guys for offering your theoretical a/l days off to me 😁 I've currently had zero response in regards to swapping and the company have said there's just no holiday availability left, so I guess a swap is the only option. To be honest I'm hoping to not be in this job next year anyway, I picked it up as a temp at the end of maternity leave to have something to do during lockdown and because DH's job was gone at the time. We're slowly picking ourselves back up financially.
@newnortherner111 I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it is extended and we end up having another Eid stuck inside :(
This is the second Eid, Eid Ul Adha so not the one after Ramadan but the one after Hajj has been performed in Makkah, so a very special day for all Muslims even if we haven't performed the pilgrimage ourselves.

I'd be annoyed too. The same thing happened to a colleague - the rest of the team rallied round and we have swapped our leave about so he can be off and celebrate Eid properly. Workplaces need to be flexible and support employees from different religions!

@BarbaraofSeville

I'm also surprised about not knowing exactly when Eid is going to take place, as others have said, we know the cycles and positions of the sun, moon and all the other planets decades into the future.

Or could it be that it's only done by manual/traditional methods with modern technology not being officially recognised by Mecca for this purpose?

I wondered this because it sounded nonsensical to me - we can predict moons and tides for centuries in advance.

Apparently the reason is they don't base it off the new moon directly, they base it from the night they first see the crescent of the moon. In good weather they'll see the crescent more easily than when there is shit visibility. So they can't pin down the date until very close to the time.

Religion falls under the protected characteristics. I don't know whether you have a case for discrimination due to that or not as you want to observe a Religious festival. You gave reasonable notice this year and it's only one day.

I worked with some one who refused to work Easter & Christmas day (hospitality) due to wanting to go to Christian church.

Could you compromise and offer to work Christmas or the bank holiday?

Can't have a day off with a month's notice? Fuck them. Pull a sickie and look for another job.

Also ask them when the fuck you will be allowed to take any holiday, as you've not had any for eight months.

My mum had the same issue. She booked 3 days off in advance but only found out a week ago it had been authorised. He put her leave in 3 months ago. She had found a colleague who would cover her shifts but the company said that they couldn't authorise it. Instead anyone who had requested eid would have their shifts looked at and if would depend on how many they could get covered. She happily works boxing day, xmas eve, new years eve and the 2nd of January for people celebrating at that time.

I've had similar at my workplace, previously I have covered xmas eve and boxing day without hesitation on the promise of having eid off. If I can't have 2 of the most important days of the year to me off then I am not inclined to do anyone any favours. I always book my leave well in advance and book a few days either side as we never know till late. A bit of flexibility and goodwill goes a long way!