Cabin Crew interview process ended based on weight - discrimination?

[CityCommuter]

I feel sorry for a friend who has always wanted to be a flight attendant / part of cabin crew for as long as I can remember. She applied and got as far as the first interview phase having already submitted a detailed application form. The form states that 'weight must be in proportion to height'.

She believes that the interview panel judged her when she walked into the room by the way they looked at her (UK size 18, height 5'5"). Obviously weight wasn't mentioned but she didn't get approval for the next interview phase. She thinks it's discrimination on their part and that it shouldn't matter even if she was a size 24! She doesn't even look like a size 18 btw but more like a 14. I'd like to advise her to lose a few pounds but can't as she has always been very sensitive to any weight related conversation even if talking about someone else! What advise would you give her?

@sailmeaway

A lot of these comments just go to show how being biased against size, particularly women's, is somehow seen as fair game.

Because sometimes it is!

I didn't know this was still a 'thing'.
I've seen a fair share of larger cabin crew over the years, especially with American Airlines.

Of course it's not discrimination, it is important for jobs like this, and I assume similar for the military, firefighters, police etc. Fitness is surely a big part of these jobs, and thus the ability to deal with emergencies.

@Bluntness100

She's being treated less well - she's not being offered the job - because she's fat

Just like someone isn’t offered a job because they don’t have a degree, or because they have a hard to understand accent, or because they have no experience, or becayse they interview badly, or any other reason someone doesn’t get a job. Not giving someone a job is of course treating them less well than the person who did get the job. Doesn’t mean it’s discrimination. Arguably every single person who doesn’t get a job is being treated less well than the person who did get it.

Not giving someone a job is of course treating them less well than the person who did get the job. Doesn’t mean it’s discrimination.

Errrm, it is definitely discrimination! That is exactly the definition of the word discrimination. I posted it earlier.

The Equality Act 2010 makes some discrimination (based on protected characteristics) unlawful. But most discrimination (eg discriminating against people without the right qualifications, or in this case the right bodily proportions) is fine, and indeed to be encouraged!

Discriminate also means to differentiate or distinguish. Employers are allowed to differentiate or distinguish between candidates, for reasons which are not against the law, like whether they can actually do the job.

Anyone with a high BMI coupled with standing and flying for long periods are at a high risk of blood clots. Maybe they have this rule for health reasons.

@33feethighandrising

But the weight requirement isn't sexist. I'm yet to see an obese man working as cabin crew. Make up, heels, pencil skirts - yes, you can call those sexist. Weight requirements aren't.

You are entirely missing the point.

In countries where they can get away with it, airlines recruitment includes blatant sexist beauty standards.

In countries where they can't, they use weight to get round this. They are not only looking at weight for safety, they are ALSO using it as an excuse to employ attractive cabin crew, precisely because people like you and others on this thread say "oh it's about safety" and, for some reason, I don't know why, are so desperate not to see how sexist this industry is.

I see your point, I agree with you, from the airlines' point of view there is a happy overlap between the practicalities and safety of body size on an aircraft and conventional notions of female (and male) attractiveness.

But it's not really of any practical importance, is it? If the stalwarts of the Mumsnet feminism board took over airline recruitment and dropped all objectification and misogynistic elements they still could not employ people who couldn't safely and efficiently do the job!

I (used to) fly A LOT and there were tons of fat cabin crew. They did great. They tended to be older and more experienced especially on the longer flights so I assume they gained weight after they were hired but it doesn't matter, really.

Size 18 isn't that big at all for lots of people, some women who are size 18 will just look a bit thick if they carry their weight in a certain way, others may look a lot fatter if they carry it all on one place and have massive hips but a small top, for example -but as I've said before. when I was a size 18 I would have had NO issue working on a plane and squeezing in anywhere, my measurements were around 37-35-45 - top heavy and defintiely not slim, but able to run, cycle, and work all day on my feet doing hard graft.

@MurielSpriggs

The Equality Act 2010 makes some discrimination (based on protected characteristics) unlawful. But most discrimination (eg discriminating against people without the right qualifications, or in this case the right bodily proportions) is fine, and indeed to be encouraged

Exactly. Selecting candidates for interview is a discriminatory process. Interviewing is a discriminatory process. Otherwise it would be pointless and they'd just hire the first person who expressed that they wanted the job.

Errrm, it is definitely discrimination! That is exactly the definition of the word discrimination. I posted it earlier

The definition of discrimination is actually the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people.

This is not discrimination becayse it is neither unjust or prejudicial. Hence why it is legally permissible.

A lot of men have been very disappointed over the last 15 years as to how old and over weight the staff have become on flights. Some airlines have gone out of their way to advertise the staff are young female and pretty. This was not the link I was after but interesting nevertheless

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-34242151

[quote Xenia]A lot of men have been very disappointed over the last 15 years as to how old and over weight the staff have become on flights. Some airlines have gone out of their way to advertise the staff are young female and pretty. This was not the link I was after but interesting nevertheless

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-34242151[/quote]
It's terrible for men not having someone they can look at who they might want to fuck on a flight. Especially if it's long haul. What are they meant to do for all that time?

Thoughts and prayers.

@Bluntness100

Errrm, it is definitely discrimination! That is exactly the definition of the word discrimination. I posted it earlier

The definition of discrimination is actually the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people.

This is not discrimination becayse it is neither unjust or prejudicial. Hence why it is legally permissible.

I will repost the Collins definition!

discrimination
(dɪskrɪmɪneɪʃən)
1. UNCOUNTABLE NOUN
Discrimination is the practice of treating one person or group of people less fairly or less well than other people or groups.
www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/discrimination

The employer is treating overweight applicants less well - it's discrimination.

Google's preferred Oxford Languages has two senses of the word:
discriminate
/dɪˈskrɪmɪneɪt/
verb
1.
recognize a distinction; differentiate.
"babies can discriminate between different facial expressions"
Similar:
differentiate
distinguish
draw/recognize a distinction
tell the difference
discern a difference
separate
tell apart
2.
make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, age, or disability.
"existing employment policies discriminate against women"

In the first sense the employer is recognising a difference - that fat people would be less able to perform certain elements of the job.

(No one seems to suggest that babies discriminating between different facial expressions need to be brought to book )

She could ask for feedback on the interview.

If you are her friend you won't mention her weight to her. Or "advise" her on her weight as this would make you a patronising arsehole.

🤷‍♀️

I'm confused, did the friend know the BMI requirement prior to interview and apply anyway or did they only bring it up at interview?

Exactly! @AllieBallyBee
Why not get them to wear bikini tops whilst stewarding too? For the poor men. 🙈

Planes are conscious of every pound of weight they have on board anyway--it costs them.

Being cabin staff is more skin to being a waitress/waiter. It's not comparable to being in the army or being a firefighter FFS!

@AmIPeriOrAreYouJustAnnoying

Being cabin staff is more skin to being a waitress/waiter. It's not comparable to being in the army or being a firefighter FFS!

Well, maybe a waiter in a restaurant in very confined quarters, with far too many tables jammed in? And the staff at Pizza Express are less likely to find themselves and their restaurant plunged into the Atlantic and having to help the diners to don life jackets and slide into the Atlantic via inflatable chutes!

I will repost the Collins definition!

Which clearly mentions "less fairly" and "less well". Which they aren't. It's like saying a blind person is being discriminated against because they can't be a surgeon.

@SoupDragon

I will repost the Collins definition!

Which clearly mentions "less fairly" and "less well". Which they aren't. It's like saying a blind person is being discriminated against because they can't be a surgeon.

It's like saying a blind person is being discriminated against because they can't be a surgeon.

Exactly! I think we agree.

@ AllieBallyBee
@ Xenia
“A lot of men have been very disappointed over the last 15 years as to how old and over weight the staff have become on flights. Some airlines have gone out of their way to advertise the staff are young female and pretty. This was not the link I was after but interesting nevertheless

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-34242151
It's terrible for men not having someone they can look at who they might want to fuck on a flight. Especially if it's long haul. What are they meant to do for all that time?

Thoughts and prayers.”
——————————-
Are you seriously meaning this quoted in full so not out of context above?

You are suggesting that civil aviation for leisure or business is otherwise a sex related flying enterprise? Is this not extremely discriminatory, hateful and an insult to accuse all of us who fly, men, women and children, of being accessories to a surreal fantasist world? This is getting weird now with woke interference hyper sensitivity intolerance against private businesses employing who they like or dislike the look of. You as a consumer can legitimately exercise your choice/discrimination based on your own views. Air India does not have particularly demanding standards anyway. There is a diversity of different airlines for you to base your consumer preferences so you can discriminate against airlines with staff not to your liking.

@PrincessNutella

Planes are conscious of every pound of weight they have on board anyway--it costs them.

They are but in the thirty plus years I spent flying (probably on the other side of the flight deck door from some here) I never ever heard of crew weight vs. fuel burn as being a consideration when it comes to Cabin Crew recruitment….it was a factor that came into a lot of things, but not that.

There are loads of reasons why an air steward would need to have a healthy BMI
Insurance - airlines have to medically insure their crew and often insurance dictates things like weight limits. Medical certificate- I assume that flight crew have to pass a medical every year or so, they may well not pass people with a high BMI. Not to mention things like evacuation drills, sea survival course (but f they do it) Fit to do the job - if squeezing in/ out of tight spaces is required - for say inspection purposes or a particularly small plane gangway is required then she needs to be able to do it comfortably.iHealth and safety: the employer has a responsibility to ensure their staff can undertake their jobs safely. If they feel that some ones size may impede their ability to do their job than they can’t employ them. I’m afraid your friend needs to find another airline or a career that does not have these restrictions. The jobs not for her….she needs to move on

@Cavalierqueen

Saudi Airlines first class is the best. They put a mattress on the bed and literally tick you in like your mum would. Blissfully relaxing. I am so glad they are over the blockade and I can go back to them.

Their selection of wines and spirits tends to be disappointing.