Cabin Crew interview process ended based on weight - discrimination?

[CityCommuter]

I feel sorry for a friend who has always wanted to be a flight attendant / part of cabin crew for as long as I can remember. She applied and got as far as the first interview phase having already submitted a detailed application form. The form states that 'weight must be in proportion to height'.

She believes that the interview panel judged her when she walked into the room by the way they looked at her (UK size 18, height 5'5"). Obviously weight wasn't mentioned but she didn't get approval for the next interview phase. She thinks it's discrimination on their part and that it shouldn't matter even if she was a size 24! She doesn't even look like a size 18 btw but more like a 14. I'd like to advise her to lose a few pounds but can't as she has always been very sensitive to any weight related conversation even if talking about someone else! What advise would you give her?

This is how men manage to carry on exploiting and objectifying us.

I'm not sure if it's naivety or just that there's a load of the usual MN posters who like to have a go, all chiming in, but all this "you have to be a certain weight for safety" stuff is nonsense. It's an excuse that allows misogynist men to continue to recruit pretty female flight attendants to sell us as sex objects for the male gaze.

The history of female flight attendants is that airlines used them as sex objects to sell the flight, designing skimpy outfits, employing slim and attractive young women and marketing them as if they were sexually available to male passengers.

Here's an article about this. librarypartnerspress.pressbooks.pub/gendersexuality3e/chapter/sexism-takes-flight/

Sure, that was a long time ago, but this is in the roots of the profession and these kinds of sexist attitudes persist with many management - often older men, and also passengers.

In countries where they are allowed to get away with it, airlines do still advertise for beauty standards.

Here's an Air India ad from just a couple of years ago:

Maximum age limit as on 01.07.2019 shall be 27 years
Marital Status: Unmarried
Height / BMI: Minimum required for female:157.5 cms (5’2”) /BMI – 18 – 22
Cosmetic Appearance: Should be well groomed with Clear complexion without any noticeable blemish, no odd scars /birthmarks. Even and regular teeth.

feminisminindia.com/2019/07/22/sexism-female-flight-attendants-await-feminist-revolution/

The only reason airlines don't advertise so blatantly for sexist beauty standards in the UK is they're not allowed to by law - so using weight as a safety issue is their way of getting round it. Don't fall for it!

If they were so blimming concerned about safety, why are female flight attendants put in pencil skirts and heels? If safety was the genuine concern, flight attendants in flats and clothes they can easily move in would be prioritised over appearance.

This issue is covered in this article: www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20180219-what-dress-codes-really-mean-for-cabin-crew

Several of the women BBC Capital spoke with who had worked for a number of airlines and described sexism on a daily basis which they felt could be attributed to the enforced dress code and image: everything from barbed comments about their intelligence to sometimes feeling physically threatened by passengers.

Stop being so bloody naïve, people! The OP has it right, the airlines are sexist and her friend isn't paranoid to feel she's being objectified.

LobotomisedIceSkatingFan
“How have you been able to work out her BMI
when you don't know what she weighs?”

Good question - the answer being I mixed up the OP’s friend being a size 18 with a Pp shortly after who said she was 18 stone. So I was wrong.

Whatever the potentially legitimate issues about weight and health (DVT) and physical attribute (need to be able to operate safety procedures etc) of course there is ALSO hideous sexist discrimination going on around brand image etc.

To address any legitimate concerns they should publish precise criteria that correlate with the hoc requirements. Specific height, or BMI or whatever. Like the police, for example.

Encouraging people to apply on a wholly subjective aesthetic like ‘in proportion’ is disingenuous and not in the spirit of Equal Opps.

There are airlines that don’t require women to parade for the benefit of passenger titillation.

Have you been on a plane? Anyone over size 12 just won't fit into all the small spaces without bumping into passengers/other crew.

"If they were so blimming concerned about safety, why are female flight attendants put in pencil skirts and heels? If safety was the genuine concern, flight attendants in flats and clothes they can easily move in would be prioritised over appearance"

Heels aren't worn on the flight. CC change into flats for the flight for comfort and safety reasons. Also many airlines now offer trousers as part of the uniform.

Blimey, on your 28th birthday are you no longer given any flights i wonder

@Mibbiesaye

"If they were so blimming concerned about safety, why are female flight attendants put in pencil skirts and heels? If safety was the genuine concern, flight attendants in flats and clothes they can easily move in would be prioritised over appearance"

Heels aren't worn on the flight. CC change into flats for the flight for comfort and safety reasons. Also many airlines now offer trousers as part of the uniform.

From the article I linked.

Beneath an image of gloss and glamour, cabin crew deal with physical health problems that come with the job from varicose veins to sleep deprivation, which some flight attendants say are exacerbated by their uniform requirements.

For former British Airways attendant, Mel Collins, bunions on her feet and severe backache during her time in the air were par for the course. On a typical long-haul flight lasting 10 hours, she would cover some seven miles in mid-height heels – which were part of her uniform – according to her own pedometer reading. She suffered swollen feet and painful blisters.

Aircrew are often expected to maintain full make-up and an immaculate hairstyle throughout their entire shift even during a night flight service

It wasn’t until she was promoted to a more senior role leading a team of about 11 crew members that she felt able to be more assertive and ask to be allowed to wear alternative footwear. “They agreed to let me wear a flat shoe which made a huge difference to my physical comfort,” she says.

@33feethighandrising it's quite possible that the physical requirements for female cabin crew are misogynistic and for practical and safety reasons. Space in aircraft is very limited and I often see overweight people shuffling sideways down the aisle. Can you really see a flight attendant shuffling sideways to push a trolley?

@PearlNextDoor

Blimey, on your 28th birthday are you no longer given any flights i wonder

Or if you get married or pregnant? It used to be in the UK, that your career as a flight attendant ended if you had a baby.

Why is everyone assuming she need or want to lose weight? Has no on here heard of people being fine with being fat? Feels like you've all been drawn in by diet culture.

All of that sexism is true, but the OP asked only about the weight requirement. Which isn't unfair discrimination.

@33feethighandrising When I was CC, heels were only worn to and from the flight. Flats were mandatory during the flight.

I haven’t read all of the previous 10 pages....but I used to live in Singapore and one of my friends worked as cabin crew for Singapore Airlines.

The maximum weight for female cabin crew is 47kg/7 stone 5 pounds.

My friend was of Indian Singaporean ethnicity and said that it was very difficult for the non-Chinese Singaporeans to get jobs with the airline. She was very thin but she said that generally the Indian and Malay women tended to have more body fat than the Chinese. I don’t know if this was true or not.

However, the ‘Singapore Girl’ is a huge selling point for the airline and they are extremely strict on grooming and appearance (even their hairstyles whilst working, nail polish, lipstick colour etc). The airline would never countenance a ‘fuller figure’ for male or female cabin crew.

[quote RampantIvy]**@33feethighandrising* it's quite possible that the physical requirements for female cabin crew are misogynistic and* for practical and safety reasons. Space in aircraft is very limited and I often see overweight people shuffling sideways down the aisle. Can you really see a flight attendant shuffling sideways to push a trolley?[/quote]
Yes, of course being massively overweight would be a problem for safety.

But, the airlines are using weight as an excuse to recruit slim and attractive cabin crew, beyond safety requirements.

It's depressing to see so many people here making excuses and covering for these sexist practices, or refusing to believe this happens.

Why not do even minimal research before commenting?

Maybe put "airline sexist interviews body type" into Google as I just did to get the articles above, to find that there has been loads written on this. The OP is far from alone in noticing this is an issue.

the airlines are sexist and her friend isn't paranoid to feel she's being objectified.

That's not a wrong statement.
What most people are trying to explain though, it's that even if you overlook the blatant sexism that still exists in the industry, this is a matter of health and safety.

I take 50-60 flights each year. I've seen many a situation where yes, an overweight or obese flight attendant would struggle to assist passengers adequately.

Someone suffering a stroke or going unconscious in the middle seat of a very cramped plane, cabin crew might need to lift this person off their seat to perform CPR. Same for those injured after some serious turbulence. There might be broken legs, luggage flying all around the cabin, etc.
Sick passengers, where crew might need to squeeze inside a row of seats to assist with clean up or simply give a hand.
Have you seen those tiny seats cabin crew strap themselves in during take off and landing? You don't fit in those as a size 18. You also don't fly the same plane every day, so you can't expect they will modify them for you.

There are 747s and 380s where you have to walk up some tiny stairs in the middle of some mild turbulence with a tray in your hands, like a PP explained. There are teeny tiny planes, like those BA Cityflyers that cover London-Amsterdam 5 times a day, where everyone and everything is squeezed into a tiny space with barely a few cm margin. Cabin crew are still expected to maneuver around graciously, and serve food, drink, help in emergencies.

Most cabin crew start by working on short routes, tiny planes, small crew, until they progress up to larger aircrafts and longer routes. They need to fit in all types of planes, be able to evacuate passengers through the tiniest of doors/windows, so it's no surprise there is a weight/height proportion requirement for these jobs.

It's not discrimination or sexism, it's common sense.

She might not want to but point is she won’t get through the cabin crew assessment stage if she doesn’t that’s the only point of the thread?

@Streamside

Did she not research this beforehand.Do we see size 24 jockeys?

That's another good point - jockeys. They're tiny and light for a reason.

Same for prison officers. If you were 5ft 1 and 8 stone soaking wet you would not be suitable to be a prison officer.

There are many jobs that require you to be a certain size for very valid reasons.

@ 33feethighandrising

You are assuming attractiveness is automatically only sexist and objectification. Many/most of us are not unattractive nor unfit. We like to take pride in our appearance and yes look hot too. But what is wrong with that and looking great a party with “normal” pretty and “less attractive on the outside” people. It that not acceptable because others have different beauty and fitness standards? It has nothing to do with sexism but just liking things with a certain aesthetic or design. We subconsciously have bias towards certain attractiveness. There is default by design trillion pound business in everything to do with appearance and design for everything. In terms of choice of airlines on the same route - safety record, comfort and level of service is my main concern along with value for money. It’s nice to have fit smiling staff too capable of fulfilling their role particularly in a rare emergency where fitness and agility is key.

It's depressing to see so many people here making excuses and covering for these sexist practices, or refusing to believe this happens.

But the weight requirement isn't sexist. I'm yet to see an obese man working as cabin crew. Make up, heels, pencil skirts - yes, you can call those sexist. Weight requirements aren't.

@EileenGC

It's depressing to see so many people here making excuses and covering for these sexist practices, or refusing to believe this happens.

But the weight requirement isn't sexist. I'm yet to see an obese man working as cabin crew. Make up, heels, pencil skirts - yes, you can call those sexist. Weight requirements aren't.

Exactly! I would fully support the unifor changes, but as you, I've neevr seen obese male crew

Why not do even minimal research before commenting?

Why so rude?

Interestingly, ex cabin crew who have posted on here have all pointed out the practical and safety issues. Although, I agree that attractiveness shouldn't come into it.

I remember on a Cathay Pacific flight many years ago all the female cabin crew wore the same coloured lipstick, and it was perfectly applied and never smudged during the 13.5 hour flight.

But the weight requirement isn't sexist. I'm yet to see an obese man working as cabin crew. Make up, heels, pencil skirts - yes, you can call those sexist. Weight requirements aren't.

You are entirely missing the point.

In countries where they can get away with it, airlines recruitment includes blatant sexist beauty standards.

In countries where they can't, they use weight to get round this. They are not only looking at weight for safety, they are ALSO using it as an excuse to employ attractive cabin crew, precisely because people like you and others on this thread say "oh it's about safety" and, for some reason, I don't know why, are so desperate not to see how sexist this industry is.

"The form states that 'weight must be in proportion to height"
Did she not think to investigate that statement further before spending time filling out an application form and attending an interview

Considering her remark that it wouldn't matter even if she was a size 24, I suspect not

And in light of OP's comment about her being extremely sensitive to any mention of weight, asking for feedback's probably unlikely. No matter how diplomatic the recruiters are - and they'll have had a lot of practise - it sounds as if any comment will be unwelcome

Everyone knows that there are hardly any size ranges for the uniform. Indeed the Singapore airlines uniform comes in one size - tiny.

And only 2 hairstyles.

I watched a doc about their recruitment and they were very blunt if the hair up style didn't look, "Singapore girl" then a short bob it had to be.

TAM send their recruits in to the jungle on survival courses.

This is not discrimination. There are reasons why cabin attendants need to be a certain way. I'm a size 6 but if I was a plus size there would be literally no chance of me being able to stuff suitcases into those overhead lockers on board the planes. It all comes down to safety in the end really.

Weight is not a protected factor contrary to popular belief. I'm sorry for your friend but it seems like she did not know much about the industry rules and policies. Say there was a crisis on board, she would need to be a certain size in order to react in time.