Would you home school? So confused 😕

[GoodHairDay86]

So our 5 year old started having SALT when he was 2 as his speech was very delayed. He was acting out in nursery with what we though was frustration. He would hit other children or grab toys etc. Looking back now it would seem the nursery didn't know how to deal with it, with the manager telling me she had never come across a child like him. When he was 3 they had some people come in to see what support he needed. Then covid hit and everything stopped.

Fast forward to now hes in reception. His speech has come on so well word wise but his pronunciation is still off with many things so he is still quite hard to understand. The school had all paperwork from nursery about his behaviour etc all paperwork from SALT before he started. We also had afew zoom meetings to get to know his strong points and struggles etc.

So far the school have been fab, he's had people in to see him , they are currently applying for an ECHP for him and we have had alot of meetings with the sen lead. He got funding and has had a 1 on 1 for the past about 8 weeks a new person from who he was use to. But the past 6 weeks he was on a restricted timetable due to him kicking someone in the face while they climbed up the slide. We had a meeting with sen lead and the head. The head was quite blunt and didn't seem very understanding. Sen lead was saying he didn't do it to be violent. Something in his plan wasn't followed (he likes his own personal space) his 1 on 1 wasn't paying attention and he kicked. Not great i know but should have been avoided. Anyway he didn't get suspended he got pit on a reduced timetable.
He was back full time past 2 weeks all perfect so well behaved.
Past 2 days behaved badly. Today he kicked 2 children unprovoked. DH called to collect and had a quick meeting. Was told he was being suspended and possibly excluded. We have a meeting tomorrow with the Head and the Head of a Pru. They want him to move to the pru.
Is this the right thing to do? Should he be in an sen school? I always thought pru was for really bad behaviour.

Sorry if I've used wrong words 😔 this is so long but I'm so lost. 2 older kids never any issues like this x

Seems a bit extreme from what you've said. Is it a UK state school as exclusion is very rare IMO.

He should be supported to be in mainstream school where possible and if he has full time 1 to 1 then that should be possible.

Yes UK bog standard school. Our older 2 attended and to be frank our oldest now 14 was a flipping nightmare at school years 5 and 6 and was never suspended although he had afew fights he never hit or kicked anyone unprovoked. They said to DH they had cctv of it but couldn't show him.

I work in behaviour and exclusions for an LA.

It sounds like he doesn't need to be at the PRU. The school need to make better attempts to meet his needs. If he behaved in that way because they didn't follow his plan, the behaviour that followed is as a consequence of a foreseeable risk that they failed to mitigate. They need to take account of the Equality Act (2010) and the SEN Code of Practice. These both state that the school have to presume him to have additional need and provide strategies accordingly.
Also, you do not have to agree to a part-time timetable and schools can't enforce them. They can only be used for specific medical reasons and schools need to demonstrate that they are increasing the time incrementally and that it's having a positive impact/ it can't just be to give the staff a break.
PM me if you want specific advice.

Thank you Janet and JanetandJohn. I haven't figured out how to PM but if I do I will. They want him to be in pru but remain on his initial schools books in the hopes of being able to return one day. I am feeling I would rather try to homeschool . Atleast until his speech is understandable to strangers so he may not lash out?

JanetandJohns post is Fab and spot on, and it doesn't sound like school have made much effort in the classroom, even if SENCO has, and the 1to1 doesn't sound on the ball at all.

Has anyone said dual or single registered to you/dh?
Dual registered is when the school keeps him on register but he attends alternative provision to get needs met with an expectation he'll return to the original school when things are better sorted.

PRU's are basically for children excluded from mainstream education. They get their stigma because of why many children get excluded, but there are really good PRU's as well as ones that tend to be a dumping ground tbh, but with an SEN child not yet with an EHCP and a year of Covid I would be looking at avoiding a PRU unless I was sure it was a notably good fit for a particular child's problems.

Sorry cross posted.

This may not be popular but if I could, in your shoes, I would go for the homeschool option but only with certainty that he can have a place when you feel he is ready. It must be a really stressful environment for him.

If you go to JanetandJohn's name on their post and look to the right hand side there are options. Third one is 'message poster'

You can't home school and keep a place open at a school.
He also will need and ECHP when he returns to school, and it is really hard to get that while home schooling.

Part time timetables are not legal. (well at least not how they did it here) What they have basically done is exclude him from the hours who should ahve been in school, and it should be recorded as an exclusion, not a part time timetable.

Sadly, you are going to need to learn to fight for your rights here. You might want to post on the SEN board of mn, where there is loads of experienced advice about what the school can/can't do, and what you can push for.

If his plan says he needs a 1:1 and the 1;1 wasn't present when he kicked, then you need to come back to the school and tell them that it is their fault he kicked as they were not following the plan.

By the way to send a private message, look at the blue bar above the post, one of the options says 'message poster' click on that and you can send them a message.

Part time time tables are not legal and it sounds like an illegal exclusion of sen child. Check out for advice
www.ipsea.org.uk/
www.sossen.org.uk/
Push massively for echp. Theres legal timeframes.

Start looking at other mainstream schools, schools with speech and language units and special schools. You have the right to chose a placement for your child.

Halfway down this page is link the echp legal timeframe www.ipsea.org.uk/what-happens-in-an-ehc-needs-assessment

Problem is if you homeschool and deregister then the lea don't have to provide echp and are not legally responsible for childs education anymore.

You can fight his corner. Perhaps repeating a year in an sen nursery if summer born or special school placement. It's sad thing to say but you have to push and fight for everything. Record everything in timeline diary. Get everything confirmed via email. If you have the money a special sen lawyer

There are some fantastic home ed groups out there and if you're on fb I'd suggest searching for home education groups in your area (we say home education not home schooling).

My child will be returning to school when they're due to start secondary, the primary had no idea how to cater to her needs or interpret her behaviour and treated us, as a family, terribly.

I bet if you tell the school that you're going to home educate him until you can find a good school who will correctly meet his needs, they'll be more willing to pull their finger out.

I home educate, and there are lots and lots of families with sen children, like your son, who didn’t thrive in school. I’m not saying that it’s necessarily the right option for you, but definitely don’t discount it. If you’re on Facebook, most areas will have a local home ed group, and you could maybe speak to a few people?

I remember them saying they would apply to the council for reduced timetable but effective immediately so I think all above board.

What do we say at the meeting? Do we ask if pru can meet his needs? Do we have the right to say no he stays put? There is an sen school local to us which we think he would love. It says they accept children waiting for ECHP. The pru is 45 minutes on a bus that we can't afford! Can't afford a lawyer to pp who suggested that.
I think its been about 3 months since the start of applying for the ECHP

Please don't make the decision to home school just because the school are not supporting him.

Is moving him to a new school and giving him a fresh start where support would be offered straight away an option?

I would also involve the health visitor before he turns 6 because they are invaluable.
The school can't force him on a reduced timetable without your consent.This is how they push parents to take kids out of school so they don't have to fund the additional care they need.
You have to fight for him to get the right care now or else it will be difficult years down the line.
It is their responsibility to put support in place for him.

Have you got official exclusion paperwork for the latest exclusion? I agree with PPs, the previous part-time timetable was unlawful. It really wasn't above board.

If it has been 3 months since you applied for an EHCP has DS had the assessments? If not and the LA aren't sticking to the timescales complain, IPSEA have a model letter you can use, and then threaten Judicial Review.

Don't electively home educate, by doing so you relieve the LA of their duties.

The LA should provide transport to the PRU, don't worry about that.

IPSEA and SOSSEN are brilliant resources and both have advice lines. The SN section on here is good, too.

Maybe a stupid question - but has he had his hearing checked? My son had really poor speech and he had very bad glue ear and needed grommets. He might be kicking through frustration that he can't hear properly. Just a thought

Has any hearing loss been ruled out?

I've a nephew who had speech issues and lots of SALT due to moderate hearing loss from glue ear.

He hit out at people in nursery as he didn't hear them coming up, and couldn't use the social communication skills needed at that age to negotiate toy sharing or swapping.

He could hear, but not all tones. So words were indistinct snd he couldn't pull a teachers voice out of the background noise. So it seemed he was ignoring instructions when he just wasn't aware it was happening.

Grommets helped. But also lots of SALT, speech unit for a while, and getting adults to touch his shoulder and get his attention before giving him instructions.

Probably all cleared already with your DS. But mentioning just in case.

Cross post!

No we have no paperwork for the exclusion. Nay get it tomorrow at the meeting? We would love him to go to the local sen school and not the pru. We never thought of moving his school as his behaviour in my opinion hasn't been off the scales, and the past 2 days I wonder if anything happened at school that he couldn't explain to them at the time and has since forgotten, I've no idea really.
He has has an assessment , it was someone who came into the school to watch him and to make suggestions on what the school need to do to help him

No issues with hearing. But he doesn't like loud noises, or crowds. Doesn't like people in his space. Doesn't really play with kids sort of plays next to them, but this is changing abit .

Also what sort of transport would be provided out of interest?

Hi, I can’t be much help but just wanted to say that my son is currently in a PRU and yes they have a massive stigma and are seen as somewhere all the excluded children are dumped, but that isn’t always the case. I was so worried it would be totally the wrong thing for him, but he has done amazingly well there, he’s like a different child. He’s on a dual placement so still on roll at his first primary, but he won’t be returning there as there’s too many negative connections for him so a managed move is currently in process to see how he copes back at mainstream.
Obviously it’s a different experience for everyone but I just wanted to give a positive.

Also to add, my DS gets transport provided as the PRU is 30 mins away, he gets a taxi which is shared with another child who also attends the same place.

MiiToo thanks for another view. But oh dear I wouldn't feel able to just pop my 5 year old into a cab alone! Or with another child that puts me on edge.

MiiToo if you don't mind me asking was your child suspended too?