Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find these headlines on the bbc website disturbing?

305 replies

malificent7 · 06/07/2021 12:34

So apparently the unvaccinated will be treated " differently."
I have both jabs, I agree with vaccination and think some reasons against vaccination are unscientific but I think it is very disturbing that our bodily autonomy and right to choose is being eroded.
Ok...I get that pregnant and elderly people should not be protected but if they are double jabbed what is the problem with coming into contact with the unvaccinated?
One of my closest mates had an extreme reaction to the vaccine...I had no issues at all but I dont feel comfortable with this.
I am no conspiracy theorist either.

OP posts:
DameFanny · 06/07/2021 14:53

@claralara42

Choices are being taken away if you don't get the injection. You don't need to fluff it out

No they are not, you have fundamentally misunderstood. The pandemic took your freedoms away. The vaccine can give them back. You are choosing not to have them back. No-one else, you.

Yes, this
Cissyandflora · 06/07/2021 14:56

Why all this jabbing? Jabs and double jabs. Jab jab jab. Vaccines please.

warmfluffytowels · 06/07/2021 14:58

Choices are being taken away if you don't get the injection. You don't need to fluff it out.

You're the one taking away your ability to choose - nobody else.

Whichjab · 06/07/2021 14:58

@AliceLivesHere I do agree with you, and maybe I was wrong using the term 'do gooders' it just feels yet again that the lowest of society are having to give up the most, the part of society that continued working in person in high risk environments during the first wave when those who are setting the rules hid at home.

ilovesooty · 06/07/2021 14:58

@claralara42

Choices are being taken away if you don't get the injection. You don't need to fluff it out

No they are not, you have fundamentally misunderstood. The pandemic took your freedoms away. The vaccine can give them back. You are choosing not to have them back. No-one else, you.

Exactly. If you choose not to be vaccinated you aren't a victim and nothing is being taken away.
ILikeMyName · 06/07/2021 14:59

We're doing all the things being mooted in the UK already in Jersey.

As of 2 days ago, there is no need for anyone who is double jabbed and a direct contact of a positive case to isolate/stay away from school/stay away from their workplace as long as they don't have symptoms. They do have to agree to being tested on Days 0, 8 and 10 from being notified of being a direct contact, but other than that they can go about their life completely as normal. They don't have to wear a mask either.

Double jabbed people coming into the island (locals or anyone from anywhere) can also come in as long as they isolate until a negative Day 0 test (and agree to being tested on Days 8 and 10 as well).

Anyone who doesn't wish to participate in the triple testing must now isolate for 14 days, not 10. (It's 21 days in Guernsey).

People with only 1 jab currently (mostly students returning for the summer) are - according to strong rumours from Government sources in Jersey - likely to have thwir isolation cut in half from 10s days to only 5 days too. (The whole of the UK is red to us at the moment, so obviously that's an issue for over-18s who are yet to receive their 2nd jabs). We are aiming to have all over-18s double jabbed by the 2nd week of August - maybe sooner if supplies allow.

Yes, our cases have gone through the roof in the last 2 weeks (as of yesterday standing at 572 (which works out roughly at 0.5% of the total island population) but just over 9 out of 10 of those are in under 18s, people who haven't had any vaccine at all, or those with only one dose. Currently 2 people are in hospital, and another 1 person was in hospital last week, since discharged (who'd had only one dose of vaccine, but symptoms were relatively mild, treated quickly and they were only in for about 3 days).

We've been maskless now for almost a month. I'd say, from experience, maybe 1 person out of every 30 might still be wearing one. Some shops still have one door in, one door out, but most have just gone back to pre-Covid systems. The only sign in most shops now is the screens up at tills. Everything else about shopping is normal now. WFH was scrapped on May 10th, children have been in school all year (give or take a week or two before and after Christmas) since September 2020.

Children at primary school and nursery don't have to miss school any longer either, even if there is a case in their class, as long as they return a negative Day 0 test. Secondary students only have to isolate for 5 days if they return a negative Day 5 test. LFTs are available to the majority of students in KS3-5, as well as a large sector of businesses and services.

The UK (and many posters on here) seem to be wringing their hands and prophesising all kinds of doom and gloom if these things are implemented there. And yes, it will be a bit of 'worse before it gets better', but the worse isn't more hospitalisations or deaths. So her we are now, living 'with', but not 'in fear'.

Yes, we have been prepared for a rough winter - but not necessarily all to do with Covid, more to do with flu and other respiratory viruses because the vaccines are absolutely doing their job (just short of 62% now are fully vaccinated, and rising rapidly week-by-week) but what we need to do now is get people's natural immunities to flu and cold viruses back to where they should be. So while we know it will be tough this winter, no one's panicking.

And while new variants might be more transmissable, they are also much less deadly. Viruses aren't stupid - they know that if they remain as virulent as they were to start with, they will die off because they've killed off all the people who might carry them! Instead they mutate to much weaker strains that cause less harm with each one.

I know the UK isn't quite in the same position with regard to controlling travel in and out - and that's absolutely been the one main thing that got us ahead - but we've been told honestly from Day 1 of the pandemic that there is no such thing as total eradication (and there never was in this 21st century global travel world we live in) only managed suppression.

NormaSnorks · 06/07/2021 15:00

People get treated differently due to their health status all the time:

  • smoker/ non-smoker - different health insurance rates
  • parkinsons/epilepsy - can have driving licence revoked
  • health and fitness profiling for certain jobs e.g. police/army etc
  • obesity/ weight loss requirements for IVF/ weight loss surgery
  • eyesight - pilots licence
warmfluffytowels · 06/07/2021 15:02

@NormaSnorks

People get treated differently due to their health status all the time:
  • smoker/ non-smoker - different health insurance rates
  • parkinsons/epilepsy - can have driving licence revoked
  • health and fitness profiling for certain jobs e.g. police/army etc
  • obesity/ weight loss requirements for IVF/ weight loss surgery
  • eyesight - pilots licence
Pssht, logic has no place here Wink Grin
PattyPan · 06/07/2021 15:04

No one’s right to choose is being eroded. People just have to accept the consequences of whatever they decide.

Honey12346 · 06/07/2021 15:10

If people were told it 2019 what their govt will be doing to its citizens for the next year and a half they would be horrified.

They have taken away people's rights to work
To open their business
To see their family
To leave the house longer than an hour
To bary their loved ones
Made them have funerals over zoom
Then restricted the number of people at a funeral
Kids's rights to education and development
They fined people for sitting on a bench
For walking with one friend
For having a family member over for a cuppa
They imprisoned care home residents, keeping them in one room for months, worse than criminals. Banned their family from seeing them.
Cancelled and delayed people's life saving medical procedures.
Told them they only have to put up with it for a bit and their rights be returned to them.
Said that vaccine passports are a conspiracy theory
When all of that didn't work to stop the spread, they blamed it on everyone not complying.
Couldn't possibly be anything they've done.
Worse of all some agreed with them. Cheered for harsher restrictions.
Then they ruined people's mental health
Told them only for a month this time and then you can have your rights back in time for christmas
Then they still took it away
Only until the vulnerable are vaxxed they said
Then data came out that transmittion is miniscule while playing outdoor sports
Still they kept outdoor sports closed while telling us they're following the science
Then data came out that outdoor transmittion in general is very tiny
Still there were restrictions on outdoor hang outs
Then they said only until all adults are vaxxed
Blamed us again for our non complying ways spreading the virus
Didn't pay people to isolate
But this couldn't possibly be spreading it
Then they said people dying from the vaxx is a conspiracy theory.
Then they banned protesting
Then it was only until adults are vaxxed twice
All this time the rich and famous are able to fly in and out, movies and TV are allowed to be filmed while a small business cannot open
Then they admitted the vaccine can kill people but said it's such a small chance it doesn't matter
16 months of every life matters but now it's who cares about vaccine deaths they are a tiny minority
Now it's only until the whole world is vaccinated, then you can have your rights back.
Oh wait not even then if you happen to get vaxxed with the wrong batch

How much more?

Yes I've lost it. I don't care call me what you want but it won't change the fact that when your govt takes away your rights over night and then makes demands on what you have to do for them to give it back there is only one word for this: TYRANNY.

Now I'm leaving this thread because it's seriously damaging my already fragile mental health

Abraxan · 06/07/2021 15:10

@Liamandlee

As long as children have the same freedoms as those who are double vaccinated.
They do.

Under 18s and all those double vaccinated will be able to avoid self isolation if they come into close contact with someone who tests positive for covid.

Only unvaccinated people will need to self isolate. This is to help protect those who cannot be vaccinated or for whom vaccination may not be as effective,

It is a benefit to those vaccinated rather than penalising those not vaccinated,

MaxNormal · 06/07/2021 15:10

No one’s right to choose is being eroded. People just have to accept the consequences of whatever they decide

I should know better by now than to wade in with this stuff but a coerced choice is not a choice freely made.
Think of it, say, in the context of sexual consent.

I can't be vaccinated. I've had people saying oh but we don't mean the exempt. Well there's been nothing in any of the proposals that acknowledge any sort of can't with these vaccines, the assumption seems to be won't.

MaxNormal · 06/07/2021 15:11

Only unvaccinated people will need to self isolate. This is to help protect those who cannot be vaccinated

This is going to be exactly the same people in some cases though.

nanbread · 06/07/2021 15:15

@MargaretThatcherMilkSnatcher

I find it disturbing OP. It's basically making people reveal part of their health status - e.g. if someone at work has tested positive and you're contacted by Test & Trace - your employer and colleagues will know if you're unvaccinated as you will have to self-isolate.

I'm not an antivaxxer. I've had many vaccines in the past. But I haven't had the Covid vaccine (yet). I've actually booked it for next week, having spent most of the night worrying about it. I have no idea if I will be able to go through with it. I feel forced into it, and my reasons for not having had it so far are sound - I've already had Covid without any problems, I have family history of blood clots, I've suffered several extreme reactions (anaphylaxis to medication).

I am a civil libertarian and I feel like I've walked into a dystopian nightmare, to be honest. All my colleagues at work are absolutely terrified of Covid and constantly talk about how selfish anyone is who hasn't had the vaccine, and to have this tacitly reinforced by the government feels like such a kick in the teeth when I actually caught Covid while looking after key worker children during the lockdown Sad

If it's any consolation the risk of blood clots is EXTREMELY low, and also a completely different type to the "normal" ones.
GiantWingedWaspMoth · 06/07/2021 15:16

@MaxNormal

Only unvaccinated people will need to self isolate. This is to help protect those who cannot be vaccinated

This is going to be exactly the same people in some cases though.

Yes. Some people that can't be vaccinated may have to self isolated in order to help others in the same boat.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make though.

imeanreeally · 06/07/2021 15:18

As long as children have the same freedoms as those who are double vaccinated.

This just turns the rules into a stick to beat the unvaccinated with though, a way to manipulate them into getting the jab.

If the science says it's safe for vaccinated people to not isolate, and it's unsafe for unvaccinated people, therefor they have to isolate - fine.

I don't agree, but I understand the rule being in place if that's what the science says.

But clearly the science doesn't say that if they can make an exception for the 12 million children in the UK?

How is it safe for a class of 30 unvaccinated children to mix with everyone in society after a confirmed positive contact, but not safe for an unvaccinated 23 year to nip to a deserted Tesco at 10pm for milk?

It's either safe according to the science or it isn't.

This feels exactly like a divide and conquer. They know that the divide wouldn't be too equal if they included children in their two-tier society, so they make children exempt and everyone nods along and says "unvaccinated aren't having their rights taken away, it's just that vaccinated people are getting some perks".

What dystopian nightmare do you have to be living in when a perfectly healthy 23 year old, who may have antibodies, who has an absolutely minuscule risk of being put in hospital, can't go to Tesco at 10pm for milk if they happened to have been in the near vicinity of an infected person in the last 10 days? A person who might not even be sick either?

Yet a 15 year old in the same situation can?

This is madness. It's not following the science at all.

MaxNormal · 06/07/2021 15:19

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make though

That it's not exactly fair?

I'm relatively unaffected. I work from home and having to isolate/quarantine isn't a huge issue for me. But it's not a great principle.
I'm sure I'll now to be told to suck it up, greater good, be less selfish and so on, which has been the running theme.

Bryonyshcmyony · 06/07/2021 15:21

Makes absolute sense and will drive the take up of the vaccine.

GiantWingedWaspMoth · 06/07/2021 15:25

How is it not fair?

Is it not fair in the same way that the most vulnerable were housebound in the earlier stages of the pandemic because they were most at risk from serious complications?

Is it not fair in the same way that key workers had to put themselves at risk and go out to work when the rest of us were told not to?

Is it not fair in the same way that the newly self employed were completely fucked over, and entitled to nothing at all when the government were handing out seiss grants?

What way is it not fair?

Cowbells · 06/07/2021 15:25

@Geamhradh

What the health secretary is saying now? That those who are double vaccinated won't have to follow the rules that nobody is going to have to follow after the 19th?
Yes. It's perfectly clear! GrinHmm
roguetomato · 06/07/2021 15:26

@MaxNormal

Only unvaccinated people will need to self isolate. This is to help protect those who cannot be vaccinated

This is going to be exactly the same people in some cases though.

But what else can we do? Other choices are either keep everyone self isolate or everyone doesn't need to self isolate. I think the double vaccinated people don't need to, is the most balanced and safest choice, imo.
PattyPan · 06/07/2021 15:29

@MaxNormal

No one’s right to choose is being eroded. People just have to accept the consequences of whatever they decide

I should know better by now than to wade in with this stuff but a coerced choice is not a choice freely made.
Think of it, say, in the context of sexual consent.

I can't be vaccinated. I've had people saying oh but we don't mean the exempt. Well there's been nothing in any of the proposals that acknowledge any sort of can't with these vaccines, the assumption seems to be won't.

It’s not a coerced choice though. No one is saying unvaccinated people will be banned from leaving their houses or put in jail or whatever. They just won’t be able to benefit from the same exemptions as vaccinated people. It’s like how if you don’t bring your reusable cup to the coffee shop you don’t get the discount for doing so. I do very much sympathise with you and others who can’t be vaccinated but I’m not really sure what can be done about it as the risk is still the same as people who choose not to get it. All we can do is hope enough people who can get it do so on your behalf.
withlotsoflove · 06/07/2021 15:30

@nanbread
If it's any consolation the risk of blood clots is EXTREMELY low, and also a completely different type to the "normal" ones.
Yeah it’s totally different. It’s worse!

warmfluffytowels · 06/07/2021 15:31

The thing is - having the vaccine is a choice, but a choice that comes with consequences. People don't like that, but lots of people are already penalised due to their health status in this country - and they can't just have a vaccine to get those choices back.

People who have epilepsy are sometimes banned from driving.
People who are colourblind can't become pilots.
People with certain health conditions can't join the police.
People with certain health conditions can't join the army/navy/RAF.
People with existing health conditions can't get certain kinds of insurance coverage.

None of those people have a choice yet they have their freedom of choice taken from them every single day.

withlotsoflove · 06/07/2021 15:32

@Bryonyshcmyony

Makes absolute sense and will drive the take up of the vaccine.
Does that not concern you? That makes me think it’s becoming a forced situation.