Kid told to go and chase the birds

[GOODCAT]

I don't have kids, but was at the coast this morning when I overheard an adult, presume mum, tell a young girl to go and chase the birds, said in a way that meant she was to go and entertain herself by doing this.

My own parents would have told me off for this and to be kind to other living creatures.

It always annoys me when I see kids chasing birds and their parents saying nothing, but to actively encourage a kid to do so is a first.

AIBU to find it sad that this kid was being encouraged to chase birds for no other purpose than her own entertainment.

Maybe they think your going to steal their sandwich

so you're just throwing unfounded accusations around?

Am I? What accusations have I made? I don’t agree with you. 🤷‍♀️

@Blossomtoes

so you're just throwing unfounded accusations around?

Am I? What accusations have I made? I don’t agree with you. 🤷‍♀️

The accusation of anthropomorphism on the thread.

Yet you've not provided any examples to support that assertion or any evidence that people have ascribed purely human characteristics to non-human animals, which is the definition of anthropomorphism.

So I'll ask again - where's the anthropomorphism?

It wasn’t an accusation. It was a comment. I disagree with you. Profoundly. Can we just leave it there? I’m bored.

@Greenrubber

Maybe they think your going to steal their sandwich

Ah! A glib, nonsense response to avoid having to face the illogic of your own argument.

@Blossomtoes

It wasn’t an accusation. It was a comment. I disagree with you. Profoundly. Can we just leave it there? I’m bored.

Ok so where is the anthropomorphism that inspired your 'comment'?

It's easy to pop onto a thread and throw words around that you clearly don't understand to try prove a point
It doesn't really stand up as a sensible discussion though

Shame that you find someone questioning your comment 'boring' and refuse to engage in informed discussion.

Though I appreciate that's probably much easier than accepting you made an error, or being open to changing your mind

It wasn’t an accusation. It was a comment. I disagree with you science. Profoundly. Can we just leave it there? I’m bored.

Fixed that for you @Blossomtoes

@WaltzingBetty

Not at all

I have said my argument that I don't believe birds are terrified when being approached by young children whether it's them running at them or trying to creep up on them

If I don't like something I avoid it I would walk away if I was a bird I would fly away

Also some birds like to be chased its fun most animals like a good game of chase so no I don't agree with any of the arguments on this thread about birds being so scared etc
They are not being hurt it is not cruel
I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me and we never will
So I don't really know where to go from here?

[quote Greenrubber]@WaltzingBetty

Not at all

I have said my argument that I don't believe birds are terrified when being approached by young children whether it's them running at them or trying to creep up on them

If I don't like something I avoid it I would walk away if I was a bird I would fly away

Also some birds like to be chased its fun most animals like a good game of chase so no I don't agree with any of the arguments on this thread about birds being so scared etc
They are not being hurt it is not cruel
I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me and we never will
So I don't really know where to go from here?[/quote]
I think the difference is that you're relying on your personal beliefs which aren't based in anything except a narrative that makes you feel comfortable.

You believe posters in this thread are being anthropomorphic. You believe birds enjoy being chased.

It's super easy to believe things that justify your actions or behaviours

I've actually presented scientific evidence that demonstrates it's not anthropomorphic to say birds experience emotions.

There's also zero evidence that birds enjoy being chased or find it 'fun'. There's actually no evidence that birds have a concept of 'fun' so it's anthropomorphic of you to believe that.

How do you simultaneous believe that ascribing emotions to birds is anthropomorphic but that they are capable of experience if 'fun' ? You realise your beliefs are contradictory and unsupported any evidence?

@Greenrubber birds like to be chased? They find it fun? Ahahah what!!! Never heard that one before. Nearly spat out my coffee.

Apologies @Greenrubber
Just realised you didn't make the anthropomorphic comment.

Regardless my point stands.
Your beliefs aren't based on anything except a narrative that makes you feel comfortable with your actions regardless of the bird's actual experience.

I totally believe animals have emotions just like we do

If they were scared then why would they land in a park full of children?

If I was scared of children I would stay up in the trees and actively avoid them! Birds are not stupid

There is actually many videos on you tube showing birds playing and being chased by larger predators

I have seen a seagull go into a local shop take a bag of crisps from the shelf and be chased out by an adult male! I have also seen that bird do it in multiple occasions if it was scared it certainly wouldn't go back would it?

I don't think you give birds enough credit

Because that’s how they get their food.

@Greenrubber i explained PAGES back that pigeons are flock birds that stick together on the ground to find food. Parks and open spaces are where they live. They go into trees to roost/rest and to keep away from predators such as foxes at night. I really don’t know what is difficult to comprehend about that.

@Greenrubber

I totally believe animals have emotions just like we do

If they were scared then why would they land in a park full of children?

If I was scared of children I would stay up in the trees and actively avoid them! Birds are not stupid

There is actually many videos on you tube showing birds playing and being chased by larger predators

I have seen a seagull go into a local shop take a bag of crisps from the shelf and be chased out by an adult male! I have also seen that bird do it in multiple occasions if it was scared it certainly wouldn't go back would it?

I don't think you give birds enough credit

You're confusing a strong motivation to find food (essential for survival) with a lack of fear.

As I said it's super-easy to believe something that supports your own actions.

Anyone can self-select videos on YouTube - there's loads on there showing electric shock collars 'working' as dog training aids. That doesn't mean it's a fun experience for the dog
None of that is unbiased or evidence.

There's no evidence that birds enjoy being chased. There is evidence that flight in birds is used as a predation-escape response which is associated with negative emotions such as fear.

The seagull that stole the crisps from the shop was when I lived right next to the sea! It was not a thin seagull it did it's risk assessment on where to get food!
Just like the ones who steal food out of people's hands

I know the seas are over fished but there is alot of food available to birds especially is they stick to what they are supposed to eat

And I wasn't talking about open parks I'm talking about play parks you know a hot-spot for children

And if they thought we were predators they would not hang around there would they? Just like they would not go near a fox

Alos the fat pigeons and gulls around probably find it easier to fly rather than hop anywhere their poor little legs there like those battery chickens you all eat

@Greenrubber

The seagull that stole the crisps from the shop was when I lived right next to the sea! It was not a thin seagull it did it's risk assessment on where to get food! Just like the ones who steal food out of people's hands

I know the seas are over fished but there is alot of food available to birds especially is they stick to what they are supposed to eat

And I wasn't talking about open parks I'm talking about play parks you know a hot-spot for children

And if they thought we were predators they would not hang around there would they? Just like they would not go near a fox

Alos the fat pigeons and gulls around probably find it easier to fly rather than hop anywhere their poor little legs there like those battery chickens you all eat

I'm vegetarian so your dig is rather pointless. You keep trying to claim moral superiority whilst refusing to acknowledge your own behaviour negatively impacts animal welfare. I realise it's uncomfortable for you but if you're serious about making good choices for animals then you probably need to be a bit mor empathetic and open minded

Also you're incorrect, flight is significantly more expensive energy-wise than 'hopping' especially when heavy. And once a certain weight is reached flight becomes impossible - it's the reason those poor battery chickens don't fly to relieve the pressure in their broken legs - they can't as they're too heavy. Doesn't mean they enjoy standing on broken legs though.

It's also the reason that falconers restrict food to their birds. Once they reach a certain weight, flight becomes difficult.

Same for pigeons etc. They'll be at the play park as parents are constantly feeding their DC snacks and birds are highly motivated to find food. That basic survival mechanism will overide their fear.

However they'll eventually reach a weight where they cannot fly away even if frightened. That doesn't mean they enjoy being chased or stop experiencing fear. It just means that they're unable to use their natural behavioural mechanism to escape the thing that's causes them fear.

Using that as an excuse for children to chase them or worse, convincing yourself that a prey animal finds being chased 'fun' fundamentally misunderstands their behaviour.

Also some birds like to be chased its fun most animals like a good game of chase so no I don't agree with any of the arguments on this thread about birds being so scared etc

*citation needed

It's not a pointless dig at all I am not claiming to be superior in any way I'm showing that people that seem to have a problem with birds being chased by children are still more than happy to stick them on their dinner plate

Would it be OK if the child caught them and then ate them? I suppose it would yes

And your sticking up for birds when you know exactly what happens to a dairy cow yet you choose to participate in that?
And I choose to not interfere when my child chases a bird
No one is perfect but you are making such a big deal out of it!
Even if they did get scared we don't really want them eating all the shitty snacks parents feed their kids anyway
I've also never seen a bird die of fear because they have been chased by a child
Plus all the shitty food they eat properly puts more strain on their heart than to fly which is what a bird does

The amount of gulls and pigeons that are around is probably damaging to the smaller birds and its us that have encouraged that by making food so available to these birds so maybe more people should chase them off

Anyway I won't be stopping my child from chasing a pigeon or a seagull I genuinely don't care what anyone thinks of this either

You can call me a bad parent if you like but I'm not
Like I said we all have a conscience and mine is clear I don't judge other people for their choices. I have not been vegan my whole life I've also participated but I'm aware of the consequences of my actions more as a result
But I still don't believe my DD is terrifying birds

I dont think I can add anything else

My 7yo loves chasing pigeons. I tell him to stop but I don't think it's cruel so much as he might accidentally barrell over a pensioner.

I don’t think the fact that birds fly away means that they’re necessarily petrified. It’s instinct at play. (Much like flies do that when you try to swat them, and then immediately come back.)

My cats run away from my DDs when they don’t want to be petted. They’re certainly not scared; they come back and sleep on their beds.

I don’t think it’s a game we should encourage children to play, though. It encourages them that it’s okay to chase and potentially scare much smaller creatures, and we know that some children grow up to think it’s a game to bully other children. So I wouldn’t allow my DDs to chase birds.

I admit that I don’t really know enough about birds to comment on whether they’re actually petrified when children chase them. I don’t think seagulls or pigeons are, but they’re obviously used to having a lot of people around.

Still not right to encourage kids to chase them.

Also some birds like to be chased its fun most animals like a good game of chase so no I don't agree with any of the arguments on this thread about birds being so scared etc

What. The. Actual. Hell?

@Greenrubber

It's not a pointless dig at all I am not claiming to be superior in any way I'm showing that people that seem to have a problem with birds being chased by children are still more than happy to stick them on their dinner plate

Would it be OK if the child caught them and then ate them? I suppose it would yes

And your sticking up for birds when you know exactly what happens to a dairy cow yet you choose to participate in that?
And I choose to not interfere when my child chases a bird
No one is perfect but you are making such a big deal out of it!
Even if they did get scared we don't really want them eating all the shitty snacks parents feed their kids anyway
I've also never seen a bird die of fear because they have been chased by a child
Plus all the shitty food they eat properly puts more strain on their heart than to fly which is what a bird does

The amount of gulls and pigeons that are around is probably damaging to the smaller birds and its us that have encouraged that by making food so available to these birds so maybe more people should chase them off

Anyway I won't be stopping my child from chasing a pigeon or a seagull I genuinely don't care what anyone thinks of this either

You can call me a bad parent if you like but I'm not
Like I said we all have a conscience and mine is clear I don't judge other people for their choices. I have not been vegan my whole life I've also participated but I'm aware of the consequences of my actions more as a result
But I still don't believe my DD is terrifying birds

I dont think I can add anything else

I'm extremely well versed in what happens to dairy cows and yes I choose to participate in that for my own convenience.

I'm not deluding myself as to the impact of my actions to retain a false sense of moral superiority. I'm honest about it.

Whereas you are inventing a rationale that supports your view of yourself despite evidence to the contrary.

I'm at least honest as to my own flaws and open to learning. You'd rather tell yourself fairy stories like 'birds enjoy being chased' to alleviate your moral discomfort. The reality is you're not as nice as you think you are, and you're not honest about it.

Alot of animals do like to be chased what makes anyone know which ones do and which ones don't
I don't think birds are scared when my child chases them that's my view and I've seen no evidence to prove otherwise
And I'm not really bothered if you don't think I'm a nice person or not
And yes you are happy to participate it horrible industries yet you think me not telling my daughter off for chasing a bird is a problem

I think you are the one with the problem and you don't need to have everyone agree with you because that won't happen in real life