AIBU to think people know when they're kissing up and kicking down?

[StillCalmX]

Not a TAAT but it got me thinking (some people are horrible) a woman in a group gave me the silent treatment for over a year because I corrected her when she misrepresented me and I know she would not have dared to have done that to anybody else in the group who she always seems to ''love bomb'' in quite an OTT way I feel.

So, poll now

Are these kiss up kick down merchants completely unaware that they have two different personalities on the go; lovely for ''high status'' people and dismissive of ''lower status people'' ? YANBU
or, are they unaware that they're switching between two personalities - YABU

I don't think they're aware enough of themselves to realise it. They're driven by a basic compulsion.

I'm curious to know what you mean by being misrepresented

Very interesting subject! I am definitely a person who always gets 'kicked down' whilst the kickers fawn and fuss and make gushing compliments over others.

Of course they are aware - it’s how they ‘control’ people.

I have known plenty and think it’s quite sad that they feel the need to behave like this. They must be very unhappy in their own lives and I actually pity them. Some have tried it on with me… but they only do it once. I won’t tolerate any bullshit and they don’t get any second chances. I just don’t engage with them any longer or give them headspace. Works for me.

I have never even heard of the phrase before, although I know the phenomenon. We always used to call it two-faced.

Yes. They're making a conscious decision to suck up to those that will benefit them.
It's not so much that I wonder if these people are aware, I always used to wonder how others on the receiving end of the love bombing don't see how insincere these people are being and used to passively wait in hope that one day they would see the light, but it doesn't work like that, I think some people are aware and it's a mutually beneficial relationship, others don't want to see it because the flatterer is serving a need.
Just have to work on your own assertiveness and put these people back in their box when they try anything on.

It depends. Some people fawn (kiss-up) because it's how they've learned to survive difficult situations, because of anxiety and/or trauma, etc etc.

But there's a difference between that, and someone who also makes a point of hurting anyone weaker than them. I've met those who are shockingly unaware of themselves and seem to earnestly believe that they're the hero of the story, so imo it's U to expect that everyone is tuned in to their behaviour and are making conscious choices. We're all animals, really.

An (off-topic ) link about the fawn response bc I find it fascinating: drarielleschwartz.com/the-fawn-response-in-complex-ptsd-dr-arielle-schwartz/

@Macncheeseballs

I'm curious to know what you mean by being misrepresented

It was to do with politics.

I doubt it's fully conscious. It's a procedural adaptation not a decision.

I used to work with a women like that. She knows what she is doing but just doesn't care. It’s all about power and about making people feel ‘grateful’ when they are being ‘nice’. Complete cow. Head up her own arse. Best to stay away from people like that.

@WheresTheLambSauce yes, I agree, there's a difference between unconsciously fawning to an oppressive boss/parent/spouse as an old survival skill and consciously deciding WHO to fawn to, who to freeze out. But even in the second scenario, is it actually conscious? Or is it more like the validation of x, y and z is important to me but the respect of a, b & c is absolutely meaningless as they can't make me look good.

I hear you. Bit different but I was at a dinner and sitting near a man who was quite senior in his field. He talked at me a bit but didn’t show one iota of interest in me or ask a single question. My DH then happened to mention my brother who is quite well known in his (same) field and quite seriously senior. Suddenly Mr Important couldn’t find me interesting enough. Bleaugh.

I'm not sure they are aware of having 2 personalities but I think they are fully aware of their opinions on those they consider beneath them and their desire to social climb.

To be honest in my experience most people who behave like this tend to be quite narcisstic, and probably aren't self aware enough to consider a world that exists outside of them

Interesting. The fact that they can (in my experience) usually control displays of their kicking behaviour towards a regular victim when in the presence of others they wish to suck up to and impress indicates they are largely aware of what they are doing. It's all rather hard to fathom, being on the receiving end of it, though.

Good link there.

It's hard to find information about people who are simultaneously ''fawning'' and 'fighting''.

In that situation @StillCalmX I think the important thing is not the fawning to the higher status people, its the freezing out of someone lesser.

I think its a fear that they will become the lesser. So the only way they can feel validated in the group is to have a scapegoat to exclude. They say nothing brings a group together more than a shared dislike

This explains my circumstances perfectly, I Definitely attract the kick down people. I'm working on that though. The replies on my other post have given me the confidence to push forward and get myself booked in for the therapy that I've been avoiding.

@comebacksunshines yes, I wonder that too, do people who have the full glare of an 100 watt fawn' shone on them not notice that certain others aren't in the beam shall we say.

But they are not 'fawning' to avert attack - as in Fight, Flight, Freeze, or Fawn. They are being obsequious to garner favour from those they wish to impress, who impress them. It's a quite different mechanism.

Both behaviours, the fawning and the kicking, are displays of virtue intended to impress the higher ups. It doesn't seem to occur to them that many people aren't impressed by this kind of behaviour, if anything they are mildly disgusted by it.

@unwuthering

But they are not 'fawning' to avert attack - as in Fight, Flight, Freeze, or Fawn. They are being obsequious to garner favour from those they wish to impress, who impress them. It's a quite different mechanism.

Yes, exactly this and to be honest, after being on the receiving end of a few ''kick downs'' I thought do I ever do this? And I realised, maybe I do! Never to the extent of freezing somebody out though!

I now strive to just fix on who I want to be and be that person consistently whether I'm chatting to somebody I'll never see again or a well-liked person with power in the workplace.

Certain groups, eg parenting groups, seem to attract kiss ups who are only interested in people who will benefit them. When you spot them in a group, or they show their true colours, stop ‘feeding’ them with your thoughts and feelings.

@TodayYearsOld

This explains my circumstances perfectly, I Definitely attract the kick down people. I'm working on that though. The replies on my other post have given me the confidence to push forward and get myself booked in for the therapy that I've been avoiding.

Good decision to go in to therapy. I have been in therapy since Last July, fortnightly though, not weekly. For two reasons, one; money and two; I've been managing without any therapy up til now, this is just something I want to tweak so that I get more out of my one short life!

I am 51 now and it occurs to me that if I'm not as confident as I'd like to be, when will I be? So, I went in to the therapy session this time last year asking the therapist to ''make me more resilient!'' and ''make me better able to control my anger'' and ''help me feel pain and hurt less''! and I thought i was going to be toughened up.

But the process seems ot have been about being kind to myself. I resisted to begin with. I felt ''no!'' I need to be stronger!

But I've got with it now. I'm listening to Chris Germer on youtube (He has some good meditations to accept yourself and be kinder to yourself).

I also recommend Kirsten Neff and I like what she has to say about self-acceptance and kindness. She has a couple of good talks on youtube, and a book out soon which I'll be listening to.

xx

When you are fawned to I think it takes a little while to notice.

In my experience you will get a fawn, and then they will slowly start entering the kicking of the lesser, testing the waters to see how the fawnee will react

I think that fawning as well is quite clever. If the fawnee is someone who equally likes to kick the lessers they will demonstrate lots of kicking behaviour. If the fawnee is someone who wouldn't like the kicking of the lessers then they will display less kicking behaviour

Fawning is all about sucking up to someone, and it will therefore the fawner will behave in a way that the fawnee likes to see and so their unpleasantness won't always come to light straight away.