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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel uncomfortable with celebrity surrogacy?

333 replies

Username91 · 02/07/2021 10:35

After reading about Amber Herd having a baby girl via surrogate it just got me thinking about the amount of famous people who have children this way. I have nothing against surrogacy, it just seems to me that a lot of rich women choose to have children this way and I’m not convinced they ALL have problems carrying children themselves. I find it a bit disturbing and wondered if I’m alone in thinking this?

Once again I’d like to point out I’m not surrogacy bashing here. I just don’t think it should be something that is used by women with money as they don’t like the idea of carrying their own babies, of course it’s very different for women who struggle to conceive/carry themselves.

OP posts:
TheWeeDonkey · 02/07/2021 18:20

Its making a commodity of children and of women's bodies, its a lucky woman who has a straight forward pregnancy and birth.

I do feel sorry for these children, outsource the pregnancy and birth, outsource the parenting and trot them out every so often for a lovely photo op. What kind of life is that?

EmeraldShamrock · 02/07/2021 18:23

Yanbu. It is very wrong and acceptable for many.
The photos of stranded babies in the Ukraine over lockdown should have highlighted it, money talks.

Ginger1982 · 02/07/2021 18:24

I was (and wasn't) surprised when Khloe Khardashian was talking about it. She's been told it would be dangerous for her to carry another pregnancy but she 'needs' to give her daughter a sibling so a surrogate is just the obvious solution rather than just sticking with one child. That annoys me.

HerewardTheWoke · 02/07/2021 18:28

YANBU OP. Irrespective of why people opt for surrogacy:

  1. It's wrong to create a pregnancy with the express intention of separating child from birth mother - separation from a birth mother is damaging for the child and should only ever be as a last resort to protect the child.
  1. It's wrong to use your greater economic power to incentivise a poorer woman to take grave risks with her health and life.
  1. It harms women as a group by encouraging society to see our bodies as resources that can be bought.
  1. If it becomes widespread enough, it may ultimately end up entrenching inequality between rich and poor women - i.e. if 'high-flying' wealthy women increasingly use surrogacy, it will correspondingly redistribute the social, physical and economic impacts of pregnancy to poorer women. That's not the way to overcome sex-based inequality.
CastawayQueen · 02/07/2021 18:29

@osbertthesyrianhamster

And your point is - what exactly?

Well, it's pretty clears yours is to be rude AF. Hmm

It was in response to Ericaqueties's post about egg donation not being a guarantee. I just forgot to quote it. That okay with you?

It's a statement of fact. She's a friend of mine. She donated before she had children herself.

I have a child with quite severe autism myself.

Carry on jumping all over me and looking for stuff that's not there in a statement of fact.

You’re the one being unnecessarily prickly - bad day? Without the quote your post implies something against autistic people. It’s true though that nobody’s eggs are any guarantee - just tuat an ‘unknown’s is presumed to be screened
osbertthesyrianhamster · 02/07/2021 18:33

You’re the one being unnecessarily prickly - bad day?

Hmm I'm not the one who got personal with another poster.

Screening or no, there isn't one for autism. Anyone using an egg donor is hopefully made aware of the fact that there are no guarantees but then, I'm not in favour of gamete donation myself.

Pinuporc · 02/07/2021 18:33

I saw a programme earlier this year about surrogacy (no celebs involved) in the uk. It followed a couple of women who were surrogates.one was a surrogate for her boss who was I think, infertile, and another young, single mother, was a surrogate for a gay couple. I thought the single mother seemed vulnerable and iirc had experienced some MH problems. I found it interesting but quite uncomfortable viewing.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 02/07/2021 18:33

I can understand people being uncomfortable with paying for surrogacy and see how its exploitative.

Out of interest, why are people still against it when it's done completely freely eg someone offers to help a family member, knowing they have completed their family and pregnancy has been easy for them in the past for example. Yes there are risks but there are also risks in donating bone marrow or a kidney etc.

Are there any studies in the longer term effects on children born to surrogates (I know there are such studies on children adopted out the family from birth)? As this is the main issue I could see if there was any evidence around it

Sleeplessem · 02/07/2021 18:35

@Ginger1982

I was (and wasn't) surprised when Khloe Khardashian was talking about it. She's been told it would be dangerous for her to carry another pregnancy but she 'needs' to give her daughter a sibling so a surrogate is just the obvious solution rather than just sticking with one child. That annoys me.
Yup same. I saw a clip and the doc said she’d be in the high risk category but that’s not directly synonymous with it’s incredibly dangerous to carry another baby. I guess it depends on the reasons, none of which have been stated. But you’re spot on, the obvious answer is to stick at 1 (biological) child, especially in her case with the father being as he is
Travielkapelka · 02/07/2021 18:39

I know someone who was a surrogate. She had had her family, she was extremely comfortably off. She just felt that she was so lucky to have her kids she wanted to give someone else that chance. She had the baby, handed it to the parents and carried on with her life. I have no issue with this. I think she’s entirely selfless

TheVanguardSix · 02/07/2021 18:46

People have NO idea. Just because we can’t remember being born doesn’t mean that it’s not traumatic for a baby to be removed from its birth mother. Why do you think parents who adopt continue working on helping their children with attachment disorders? Do parents of babies born via surrogacy work through attachment disorders as well (genuine question)?

DontDrinkDontSmokeWhatDoIDo · 02/07/2021 18:46

@HerewardTheWoke

YANBU OP. Irrespective of why people opt for surrogacy:
  1. It's wrong to create a pregnancy with the express intention of separating child from birth mother - separation from a birth mother is damaging for the child and should only ever be as a last resort to protect the child.
  1. It's wrong to use your greater economic power to incentivise a poorer woman to take grave risks with her health and life.
  1. It harms women as a group by encouraging society to see our bodies as resources that can be bought.
  1. If it becomes widespread enough, it may ultimately end up entrenching inequality between rich and poor women - i.e. if 'high-flying' wealthy women increasingly use surrogacy, it will correspondingly redistribute the social, physical and economic impacts of pregnancy to poorer women. That's not the way to overcome sex-based inequality.

I'm going to save your post, @HerewardTheWoke - you've summarised my thoughts perfectly.

UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme · 02/07/2021 18:48

DrinkFeckArseBrick very few things like this are done completely freely - there's always going to be an element of emotional blackmail even if unintentional. The intensity and complexity of emotions around the creation and raising of a baby through extended family or friends surrogacy is very hard to imagine.

There are many anecdotal accounts of so called altruistic surrogacy gone wrong, and of course no matter whether money changes hands a baby has been created for the express purpose of removing it from its mother (as far as the newborn is concerned) with the associated issues.

There are plenty of accounts similar to this to be found:

nordicmodelnow.org/2020/01/29/i-was-an-altruistic-surrogate-and-am-now-against-all-surrogacy/

Comedycook · 02/07/2021 18:55

@Travielkapelka

I know someone who was a surrogate. She had had her family, she was extremely comfortably off. She just felt that she was so lucky to have her kids she wanted to give someone else that chance. She had the baby, handed it to the parents and carried on with her life. I have no issue with this. I think she’s entirely selfless
Like I said, only women are conditioned to be so accommodating and giving of themselves
HerewardTheWoke · 02/07/2021 18:55

@DrinkFeckArseBrick

I can understand people being uncomfortable with paying for surrogacy and see how its exploitative.

Out of interest, why are people still against it when it's done completely freely eg someone offers to help a family member, knowing they have completed their family and pregnancy has been easy for them in the past for example. Yes there are risks but there are also risks in donating bone marrow or a kidney etc.

Are there any studies in the longer term effects on children born to surrogates (I know there are such studies on children adopted out the family from birth)? As this is the main issue I could see if there was any evidence around it

Live donation of a kidney or bone marrow carries risks but it is done to save an existing life, and it is only ethically acceptable when done in a way that minimises risk to the donor (e.g. the donor usually retains the biggest kidney), and we don't allow payments from recipient to donor.

If organ/marrow donation doesn't happen, the chances are that somebody dies (or has a massively reduced life expectancy). It is a balance of risk to the donor and benefit to the recipient.

If surrogacy doesn't happen, nobody dies. That's the ethical difference. You're creating a completely new risk of someone dying (the surrogate mother) for no medical benefit to another individual. And the way surrogacy is done is often more high risk than a normal pregnancy - e.g. implantation of multiple embryos.

clopper · 02/07/2021 18:59

Biarizzcrackers
Surrogacy just keeps getting pushed that little bit further; it used to be something I was fairly comfortable with, as I just thought it seemed a generous, selfless thing to do for people who were unable

This.
I feel like the whole issue of surrogacy has changed from a selfless gesture to a commercial venture. I disagree with it completely, it’s all about the adults not the child.

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep · 02/07/2021 19:02

@Travielkapelka

I know someone who was a surrogate. She had had her family, she was extremely comfortably off. She just felt that she was so lucky to have her kids she wanted to give someone else that chance. She had the baby, handed it to the parents and carried on with her life. I have no issue with this. I think she’s entirely selfless
Getting pregnant, gestating and birthing a baby to give away as 'a nice thing to do' is utterly mad. Nobody mentally ok would think of doing that. That must be meeting some need in them.
jeaux90 · 02/07/2021 19:04

Surrogacy is right up there with prostitution for me. Exploitation of women and the very worst of capitalism to commoditise women's bodies

Comedycook · 02/07/2021 19:07

Getting pregnant, gestating and birthing a baby to give away as 'a nice thing to do' is utterly mad. Nobody mentally ok would think of doing that

Agree

Travielkapelka · 02/07/2021 19:11

I don’t agree. I think that there genuinely are peoples or who have had easy pregnancies and who want to be able to offer someone they know (as in this case) the opportunity to be a parent. I wouldn’t have done it for a friend or a random but I had really easy pregnancies and if my sister had been unable to have a baby I would have done it for her without hesitation

TheWeeDonkey · 02/07/2021 19:29

@Comedycook

Getting pregnant, gestating and birthing a baby to give away as 'a nice thing to do' is utterly mad. Nobody mentally ok would think of doing that

Agree

Me too
PurpleDaisies · 02/07/2021 19:35

You have really easy pregnancies until suddenly you don’t. Each pregnancy is a new event. My “I always have easy pregnancies” friend recently had gestational diabetes and needed an emergency c section with baby three after totally straightforward experiences before.

FrankButchersDickieBow · 02/07/2021 19:36

@DrinkFeckArseBrick

I can understand people being uncomfortable with paying for surrogacy and see how its exploitative.

Out of interest, why are people still against it when it's done completely freely eg someone offers to help a family member, knowing they have completed their family and pregnancy has been easy for them in the past for example. Yes there are risks but there are also risks in donating bone marrow or a kidney etc.

Are there any studies in the longer term effects on children born to surrogates (I know there are such studies on children adopted out the family from birth)? As this is the main issue I could see if there was any evidence around it

I love my sisters too much to ask them to do something so risky so I could get something I wanted.

They would offer, but I would refuse. I would never in a million years expect someone to carry a child on my behalf.

Ericaequites · 02/07/2021 19:36

@OrangeBlossomMacaron. Egg donation is often a form of eugenics I find disconcerting. You can try to choose the perfect genotype, but the resulting phenotype may be quite different.

Annasgirl · 02/07/2021 19:40

All surrogacy is wrong. There are loads of resources on here to back this up. Anyone who support the idea that pregnancy is a service has never studied human biology or in vitro neurological development or the brain shrinkage that occurs during pregnancy or ................

It is always wrong. Whether it is Barbara from next door, or Amber or any other person, the idea that you can buy a human is WRONG.