To feel uncomfortable with celebrity surrogacy?

[Username91]

After reading about Amber Herd having a baby girl via surrogate it just got me thinking about the amount of famous people who have children this way. I have nothing against surrogacy, it just seems to me that a lot of rich women choose to have children this way and I’m not convinced they ALL have problems carrying children themselves. I find it a bit disturbing and wondered if I’m alone in thinking this?

Once again I’d like to point out I’m not surrogacy bashing here. I just don’t think it should be something that is used by women with money as they don’t like the idea of carrying their own babies, of course it’s very different for women who struggle to conceive/carry themselves.

@M0nkeybars

A lot of judgement on this thread. I'd be interested to know how many of those of you totally against surrogacy have struggled with infertility or have had multiple losses and surrogacy is one of the very few options available for you to have a child of your own? What about LGBT+ couples who can't carry a biological child? Or single people?

And please don't say "just adopt" - it's not that simple.

At the end of the day having a 'child of your own' is a want, not a need.

Yes, I know that some people want their own child desperately and their inability to do so is deeply sad for them. I feel sorry for these people, but wanting something very much does not give you the right to have it at all costs.

@womanity

I actually looked into it prior to having DD, and at least in the UK it does seem incredibly complex and long winded and apparently it’s costly too ( this is all third hand info) and whilst I get there is obviously need to caution and due diligence due to safeguarding and welfare, i do worry the yellow tape acts as a deterrent and then frankly it’s easier to ‘commission’ a surrogate in Eastern Europe

Adopting in the U.K. doesn’t cost a penny. The process is straightforward but can be lengthy. I can imagine that it would be fairly hard for a U.K. power couple to get through the assessment because your need to demonstrate the child would come first, which is at odds with being too busy to carry a child or intending to leave its daily welfare to a fleet of nannies.

Are there not legal fees for adoption? Perhaps the expensive cost was referring to overseas adoption (the couple in question had wanted to adopt from their ancestral home country but were British citizens) .

I think the length of the process easily leads people to think it’s complicated from a timescale v expectation point of view.

I’ve also known a couple (doctor and teacher) that were highly scrutinised for ‘not having the time for the child’ when they’d made perfectly sensible arrangements, their careers were apparently deemed too time consuming. Again second hand info but I don’t believe they went on to adopt

There are no legal fees to adopt.
When you adopt a child you need to be able to stay home with the child for a decent amount of time. You can't adopt a child and then put them in nursery 3 months later. I imagine that's why your doctor friends were turned down? Adopting a child is not the same as having a birth child.

Babygotblueyes what a strange insistence that reality should be recreated as you wish it to be. Seperation of newborn from mother (and a newborn knows the woman in who's womb she or he grows as their mother regardless of what you might prefer) is traumatic.

Just because you don't like reality and find it "vile" doesn't mean that it stops being reality or mean anyone should be shamed into lying to be "kind" at the expense of exploited children and babies created to order to be removed at birth.

@Singlebutmarried

Their body their choice as to whether they get pregnant or not.

If they choose not to get pregnant, but want a baby then where’s the issue.

The surrogate supplies a service that is paid for, does it really matter if it’s Mrs miggins from next door, or someone who wants a baby but doesn’t want to carry one?

Women are not human incubators.

If people cannot have children naturally, or through IVF, perhaps they should try adoption, instead of thinking it's their god given right to have a child regardless of how completely unethical it is.

@Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep

There are no legal fees to adopt. When you adopt a child you need to be able to stay home with the child for a decent amount of time. You can't adopt a child and then put them in nursery 3 months later. I imagine that's why your doctor friends were turned down? Adopting a child is not the same as having a birth child.

I think they had adoptive leave through work but perhaps it wasn’t sufficient? I’m not sure, didn’t ask too many questions as they seemed quite upset x

A friend adopted two pre-school siblings, (2 & 4 I think), obviously they must have been through a lot to have been removed from their birth mother and put up for adoption. She gave up work as a teacher to be home with them and for the first year she and her husband devoted themselves to settling the children and establishing security and routine. She gradually introduced the presence of a baby sitter to help with them for the odd hour allowing her to do some tutoring from home. It was only after a year that they actually left the children for short periods in the care of a family member.
It absolutely infuriates me when I see celebrities adopting, eg Madonna or Angelina swooping in to an orphanage in Africa and returning homes with a baby when you know they will just hand those children over to a team of nannies.
Anyway, that sort of thing seems to have gone out of fashion now. Much easier to rent a womb and buy a newborn I suppose.

Adoption leave is 52 weeks, the same as maternity leave. Statutory adoption pay is the same as well. It can also be split like maternity leave. Either parent can take the adoption leave. The other parent gets a variant of paternity leave.

Any legal fees would like have been related to visas or bringing the child into the UK from abroad.

My friend and his husband adopted a child. He took the full year and then left his job and retrained so that he could have 2 years at home and then be around a lot more too. The child has been with them almost 4 years now and it's only recently they've used non family baby sitters or done any preschool setting.

@Twizbe

Adoption leave is 52 weeks, the same as maternity leave. Statutory adoption pay is the same as well. It can also be split like maternity leave. Either parent can take the adoption leave. The other parent gets a variant of paternity leave.

Any legal fees would like have been related to visas or bringing the child into the UK from abroad.

My friend and his husband adopted a child. He took the full year and then left his job and retrained so that he could have 2 years at home and then be around a lot more too. The child has been with them almost 4 years now and it's only recently they've used non family baby sitters or done any preschool setting.

Perhaps their plans had been built around pay, I don’t know- just supposing here. But from what was said the expectation was that one party would give up work and for whatever reason that wasn’t viable. I think after that they considered embryo donation, but again didn’t ask too many questions- never surrogacy though 🤷‍♀️

Sleeplessem it seems likely your acquaintances didn't tell you the whole story about why they were turned down to adopt. Its very human and understandable to put your own spin on rejection, but you don't actually know why they were turned down. There's no specific career that defines a person as automatically suitable to adopt and deserving of exemption from the screening process. Its entirely likely that one of them had unrealistic expectations and expresaed these to the social worker.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

Sleeplessem it seems likely your acquaintances didn't tell you the whole story about why they were turned down to adopt. Its very human and understandable to put your own spin on rejection, but you don't actually know why they were turned down. There's no specific career that defines a person as automatically suitable to adopt and deserving of exemption from the screening process. Its entirely likely that one of them had unrealistic expectations and expresaed these to the social worker.

Seems likely, could be unrealistic expectations of how much time off was warranted v pay, from what Pps have said. Again I’m not sure, but those sort of attitudes (time off/ not grasping the complexities of adoption etc) might be why option such as surrogates are becoming more popular with well to do folk 🤷‍♀️

Adoption leave us the same as maternity leave.

I am completely against surrogacy. It is buying a baby that has no say and separation from the mother is devastating with lifelong consequences. When people describe it as a service my heart sinks.

Thanks Maggiesfarm. Yes we have made a good life for ourselves without children. It is possible.

A lot of judgement on this thread. I'd be interested to know how many of those of you totally against surrogacy have struggled with infertility or have had multiple losses and surrogacy is one of the very few options available for you to have a child of your own? What about LGBT+ couples who can't carry a biological child? Or single people?

While i have sympathy for infertile couples who experienced miscarriages, i have zero care for LGBTQ+ couples or single men. They shouldn't have a motherless child just because they want. Selfishness on the extreme.

@M0nkeybars

A lot of judgement on this thread. I'd be interested to know how many of those of you totally against surrogacy have struggled with infertility or have had multiple losses and surrogacy is one of the very few options available for you to have a child of your own? What about LGBT+ couples who can't carry a biological child? Or single people?

And please don't say "just adopt" - it's not that simple.

The reasons are irrelevant. Renting another woman's womb and risking her life for your wants is never okay.

But no, it isn't as simple as "just adopt."

@Muminabun

I am completely against surrogacy. It is buying a baby that has no say and separation from the mother is devastating with lifelong consequences. When people describe it as a service my heart sinks.

This.

Are gay men and gay male couples not able to co-parent with a woman? Must it always be surrogacy? I ask because I myself was exploring this option to have a family, and it is one, to have children and co-parent.

@CatsArePeople

A lot of judgement on this thread. I'd be interested to know how many of those of you totally against surrogacy have struggled with infertility or have had multiple losses and surrogacy is one of the very few options available for you to have a child of your own? What about LGBT+ couples who can't carry a biological child? Or single people?

While i have sympathy for infertile couples who experienced miscarriages, i have zero care for LGBTQ+ couples or single men. They shouldn't have a motherless child just because they want. Selfishness on the extreme.

Yes, there is option to co-parent with a woman and even her partner, male or female.

@osbertthesyrianhamster

Are gay men and gay male couples not able to co-parent with a woman? Must it always be surrogacy? I ask because I myself was exploring this option to have a family, and it is one, to have children and co-parent.

Some do, some already have a child or children from a previous heterosexual relationship and make a good job of parenting. Why not? That has nothing to do with surrogacy though. I'm glad you said, "Must it always be surrogacy?". Of course not, it was rarely heard of before the 1980s and if it was illegal, it wouldn't happen therefore not be an issue.

@CounsellorTroi

Thanks Maggiesfarm. Yes we have made a good life for ourselves without children. It is possible.

Glad to hear it!

There is not enough status given to childless people. In the past there was, it was accepted that some people cannot/do not have children, no one else thought anything of it and they managed to have a decent life. In my life I have seen changes in attitude on this issue. Nobody has a right to a child.

@FourTeaFallOut

The child came from her egg and her husband's sperm so biologically hers and her husband's baby

Well, genetically, you might argue although there is the influence of the pregnant woman on gene expression to complicate that fact but biologically?

Biologically another woman's body built that IKEA flatpack handful of cells and nourished and nurtured each and every cell of that baby for 9 whole months thereafter.

I agree with you. I wasn't saying I think it was right but it happened and now the child is here and growing up with biological parents and sibling. Nobody can do much about that after the event.

The couple already had a child. Why could they not be thankful for having one when so many cannot. The ideal may be having two but if you can't, you can't. I know people who have only had one child and they've been quite happy, their child has grown up fine.

I oppose the barbaric practice of surrogacy. Though the UK standards aren't strict enough, I agree they are much better than those of the U.S.

People also forget that when gay or single men, or women who cannot provide eggs, use a surrogate mother, it is not just the SM that is affected - at least one other woman in involved - the woman who "donated" her eggs.

Here is an interesting podcast from a woman who nearly died as a result of ovarian hyper-stimulation syndrome.

I know that my local hospital has seen a significant increase in admissions related to OHSS - women who have had private IVF treatment at a private fertility clinic but who rely on the NHS to come to the rescue when it all goes wrong. At least one of the 24 admissions in 2019 was admitted to ICU.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/venus-rising/id1481872967?i=1000517068532

To follow on from the OP, I think the normalisation for celebrities buying babies (going all the way back to Elton John), in addition to porn culture and mainstream media setting impossible beauty standards for women, has led to this young woman wanting to enter into 'social surrogacy'.

Basically she doesn't want to mess up her body with the boring and damaging tasks of pregnancy and labour so intends to get someone else to do it. Outsourcing the Womb you could say (which is the same name of a great book btw).

"Actress Amber Heard just had a baby by surrogate, it’s not as unusual as it was. I don’t see why I should have to wait to meet a man just to have a baby. I’m financially secure and if I use a surrogate then I’ll be able to keep on working."

The Russian model suggested that using a surrogate in Kazakhstan is a cheaper option, citing her ultimate desire to live a “happy life.”

She explained: “There is a fee for the mother for actually carrying the baby but also a monthly salary while she’s pregnant."

(But she's going to a country that offers a cheap option so she's on a budget...and the sperm donor could be one of her Instagram followers, so that's a nice way to find the father of your child.)

Only fans has a lot to answer for.