To apply for a junior role in my own team

[Itsraimy]

Name changed as outing!

I like the company I work for and it has a generally good culture. However my job itself is mega stressful and am looking at a step down (entirely voluntary).

So, to the situation. In the team that I lead there are 32 people, 3 bands, senior managers, managers and delivery focused people.

The vacancy that has come up is for a delivery focused person so the role would be 3 steps down from my current role. Low stress, it’s a classic 9-5 with very reasonable expectations on what is to be delivered. The role is satisfying and I’m sure I could do it, and obviously few of the pressures associated with my current role.

Could I apply for it? AIBU by thinking I could?

I could take the salary drop, the role is circa 30k which is a small % of my current salary but would allow so much more balance. At the moment I rarely do less than 55 hours a week.

Are you sure you could step down from a manager of 32 people to one of the most junior positions in the same team?
Chances are you still will be doing a good chunk of management duties, as you often are the only person who knows where bodies are buried - but for a fraction of your current salary.
Source: been there, done that.

Technically there’s nothing stopping you - but would your team members accept you? Also would you be able to keep your head down and listen to your replacement ?
The dynamics would be very strange

@forinborin

Are you sure you could step down from a manager of 32 people to one of the most junior positions in the same team? Chances are you still will be doing a good chunk of management duties, as you often are the only person who knows where bodies are buried - but for a fraction of your current salary. Source: been there, done that.

Second it - people know that you have the knowledge. They will keep coming to you and you can’t say no can you?

Better to move to a junior role in a different team

Would you get frustrated when decisions are taken that you disagree with?
How much would you be happy to do when you see something about to go wrong and you could step in and sort it... But it's not your responsibility

It won't work.
If you want yo step down you need to move companies.

No, don't do it. By all means step down, but you'll need to change companies. It would be odd and uncomfortable for all to have the boss suddenly working in a very junior role.

Would you be working for the people who currently work for you? Or is the team big enough that the mix of people you interact most with now would be different?

Even when it is chosen, moving down ranks can be very tough especially when it means the power changes so that you lose power in exchange for people having power over you. (Just because you don't feel 'powerful' right now doesn't mean you don't have power and you are more likely to notice once it is taken away and exerted over you.)

You might also find it difficult not being properly challenged/stimulated. You say the role is satisfying and you could do it, but is that based upon actually having worked in the role for a period of time or your perception of the role?

Do you genuinely have the skillset for the role or are you just assuming that because you can perform at a higher rank you automatically will be able to do 'lower' roles?

Nothing wrong with wanting a less stressful role if your finances can accommodate it, that part isn't an issue. But trying to make the transition in the same team and organisation could be quite challenging. I also agree with the points made about pp re it becoming frustrating.

@forinborin

Are you sure you could step down from a manager of 32 people to one of the most junior positions in the same team? Chances are you still will be doing a good chunk of management duties, as you often are the only person who knows where bodies are buried - but for a fraction of your current salary. Source: been there, done that.

I'm also thinking this.

I've never moved roles within the same department after having a similar experience. I have remained in the same company, but made sure every new role is within a different department or site to avoid it ever happening again.

Someone in my team stepped down from being the manager to a lower level role. He’s really happy. I’ve been given encouragement myself to step up to a higher level, but I have chosen to stay at my level. I say go for it.

I wouldn’t allow you to apply for that role if I was your manager. The dynamics would be far too strange.

What about taking a look at a similar level in another team or department?

I put YABU because I think it's obviously possible but have you thought about all the implications of doing this in a team you currently lead:

• Having opinions on the direction of the team but without influence, will that be a problem for you?
• Your new manager will be someone who is currently 2 rungs below you - how will you handle that? If you know them well this could be an added complicated dimension
• Relationships with peers could be interesting, e.g you may experience some odd reactions from people to you

I think overall it could be a bit odd for you in terms of how people relate to you in your new role and politics. Don't under estimate how frustrating it might be to report into someone that you are more experienced than. I've known people to do this, but moving teams at the same time.

Really good feedback and think there’s a lot of truth in this.

I don’t ‘feel powerful’ but the reality is probably different in the way people interact with me vs this role.

I think I could do the role based on having done it several years ago. Things will have changed for sure, but I’ve kept up to date generally by listening to my team.

Maybe the power dynamics would be too weird for people. Effectively i would report into a manager who’s manager I hired!

I think a concern would be that the whole team could get a poor or incompetent new leader and I would struggle with that, knowing how the strategy ought to be executed. I truly believe the team would do their best to ‘accept me’ as they’re that kind of team, but if the new manager was not great, think they would probably still come to me with that challenge!

The irony is, I’m up for a promotion 😂 which I am very clearly not suitable for!

As others have stated it will change the dynamics massively.
Also have you had to discipline any of the team members in the past or give them poor appraisals?
In such a big team they will remember things like that plus every slight they deem you responsible for.
If you want to drop down do it by leaving the company and going elsewhere.

@Caspersdad thankfully I haven’t, they’re a fantastic team and I truly love leading them. They’re intelligent, inspiring, hard working.
But I work every Saturday and most evenings and it’s just not tenable to continue in my current role, and have any kind of life

If I could just lead them and not have to do all of the other director level parts of the role, It would be a perfect job!

I wouldn’t agree to this if you were on my team, but would help you try and find something similar in another. The dynamics would just be completely wrong. Actually, I think I would try and work with you to see how you could be better supported to stay in your current role.

Sorry to drip reply but I know I’m a good leader, my feedback scores are always 90%+ on engagement but I can’t do the role anymore as the workload is insane. This is just par for the course at this level in the company. Every other director is emailing at midnight and working weekends.

@Itsraimy

If I could just lead them and not have to do all of the other director level parts of the role, It would be a perfect job!

OK, my first question - is your PA doing their job properly?

@forinborin Yes, he is fantastic. It’s stuff he can’t influence like the number of Exec meetings. The face time needed with the board, the endless committees that take so much time, the onerous process to make any impactful change.

Why not try, you can then always move sideways to a similar role in another company which will then be easier. Just be really sure you won't miss the money too much and go and talk to the hiring manager and your manager about your intentions (get 'ahead of the story as it were) let them get used to the idea and that you are aware you may not get the job but as it is your intention to take a role with less management responsibilities and overtime you hope they will consider you because you are very happy at the company and don't want to leave. Avoid terms like 'less stressful' or 'easier' or 'less important'. Say that you loved this job before, were good at it and higher pay is low on your priority list.

I think for that to work you'd have to move companies/to a very different team in the company. The dynamic would be awkward and I think you would end up getting lumped with a lot of thr same responsibilities for a much lesser pay

I do get this, I’ve felt it too. But I always come back to the fact that I don’t think in reality I would be comfortable losing my ability to influence. Is there an opportunity to reduce hours to part time or propose a job share? I have a day off every week, so justify only doing 80% of what I used to do by being paid only 80% of what I used to get paid. But that one day and evening off is lovely

Is there potential with this promotion to actually reduce hours, or even stay in your role and job share? I agree it would be really difficult where you are. Both for you and others.

My ex - manager is now my colleague, and one of our colleagues is now both of our managers- it works fine. We are all mature enough to understand people need/want different things from work/careers at different times. She probably does have to hold back her opinions a lot in fairness, and our new manager takes a lot of care to be sensitive to the situation, as well as not to give her a higher level of work than what she is currently paid to do (unless she specifically requests it). It’s tricky but doable.