To apply for a junior role in my own team

[Itsraimy]

Name changed as outing!

I like the company I work for and it has a generally good culture. However my job itself is mega stressful and am looking at a step down (entirely voluntary).

So, to the situation. In the team that I lead there are 32 people, 3 bands, senior managers, managers and delivery focused people.

The vacancy that has come up is for a delivery focused person so the role would be 3 steps down from my current role. Low stress, it’s a classic 9-5 with very reasonable expectations on what is to be delivered. The role is satisfying and I’m sure I could do it, and obviously few of the pressures associated with my current role.

Could I apply for it? AIBU by thinking I could?

I could take the salary drop, the role is circa 30k which is a small % of my current salary but would allow so much more balance. At the moment I rarely do less than 55 hours a week.

I feel your pain, I would be tempted to do the same. I would at least moot the idea it may raise some questions with HR etc as to why you would want to...

I did it. I dropped my management role after I returned from bereavement leave when my husband died. It had put life into perspective for me, and I realised the elements of my job that I loved were in the next level down, and the elements I hated were almost entirely due to my management position.

I didn't actually apply for another job though. I just talked to my boss (it helped that I knew there were young and excellent staff members a level below me who were hungry for the chance to move up) and said I'd like to take a step down. She totally understood, and I think was happy that she'd get to hold on to one of those younger people, who might otherwise look elsewhere, and still have someone exceptionally experienced in the lower but very important role.

It was fine. The person promoted into my place was lovely, and approached me to check how I felt about it, and I was happy for them to come to me for advice occasionally. It was quite nice to have a kind of 'elder statesman' role, and I learned to love my job again.

I'm in exactly the same position as you and submitted my application today. Am so excited to switch off my pc at 5pm and handing back my works phone!!

I have stepped down 1 grade in my company so from a management grade to a customer service grade and it was fine. If the department manager did it I would be surprised but would get over it. The hardest bit would be if you would be left alone to do the job.

Am I the only one thinking that 55 hours a week really isn’t that bad? Do I need to adjust my perception?

@PacifyLulu

Am I the only one thinking that 55 hours a week really isn’t that bad? Do I need to adjust my perception?

After passing a certain income threshold time becomes more valuable than money. 15 hours extra work equates to 3 extra hours per day, or similar at the weekends. It’s really not worth it if you’re already earning enough to live comfortably + save.

No no no I wouldn't. You need to cross teams to go in at a lower level, not
Your own.

@PacifyLulu

Am I the only one thinking that 55 hours a week really isn’t that bad? Do I need to adjust my perception?

Depends how much you're paid, what your responsibilities are, and your role, surely? Some jobs are worth that sort of commitment (and more). Others very definitely aren't.

Depending on the person I think this should be encouraged. The team wins from having your institutional knowledge, you win from having more time. You'd all need to set and stick to boundaries otherwise it's not going to work.

My colleague moved up and out of my role which I've developed way beyond her capabilities. I'm not a threat to her new role on any way, but twice today she's got into my lane and made me look a bit of a fool. It's that kind of thing you need to stop yourself doing.

If you're friendly with the team I'd do it. They might need your opinion at times without the stress of decision making.

Can't you just go part time? Do a job share? Think of your pension too....

@PacifyLulu

Am I the only one thinking that 55 hours a week really isn’t that bad? Do I need to adjust my perception?

Really, 55 hours / week is not really manageable in the long term even by the most energetic and dedicated of people.

I know many people who claim to work 60-70 hour weeks, and they are logged in / in the office for that amount for sure... but ~40% of that time is spent faffing about / socialising / lunching / whatever.

A 55 hour working week with a 2 hour total commute every day (in pre covid times, obviously) means that you are out of the house at 7, and back at 8. It means that you never see your children awake during the week, for example. It is not sustainable, and not healthy. And I am saying it as someone who is writing this post during a toilet break from writing a report due tomorrow - and my first meeting today started at 6 am.

I know this is opposite to what you are planning, but are you sure the promotion wouldn't give you more control over your workload and the constant meetings, so you actually might end up working fewer hours?

As @Elsa30 says. Or can you go for job share?

OP, you sound burnt out. So do your director colleagues. Can you share how you feel and float the idea of a proper organisational burnout assessment and intervention?

When I do these assessments I always make recommendations around working patterns etc and help the company think strategically about how to retain talent.

You sound like a great leader who is really burnt out. You would struggle to go back to not thinking at a more strategic level, and dropping down isn’t the only answer to your problem. If your employer was really on board with improving the culture, it could be done. You’ve got a good thing otherwise with a healthy set of colleagues at lower levels, so the only fly in the ointment is the burnout problem. Which can be addressed.

^ this. What @Fiep says.

I don’t know if somebody has mentioned this already but, going to a junior role doesn’t necessarily means less stress. You can be stressed at any job level if the company is asking more than what is reasonable for an individual to deliver in the amounts of hours they work and with the training they have.

You may also find that stresses at a lower level are different as you lose your influence in the organisation. As my old boss, in a junior role, put it “when I was working in the Director office I just needed to pick up the phone to report a problem and it was sorted within hours, now I need to spend hours just trying to get some one to record the issue and putin in a queue for it to be deal with hopefully by Christmas”

Before you leave your role I strongly advise you to read the book “Essentialism” as you may discover, as I did, that the main stressor in my job was caused by myself: I am very efficient and kept offering to help, in my spare time, when people were overloaded or under prepared for certain tasks, then my “bonus” ability to create magic to sort problems quickly became an “obligation” and what was expected of me no matter how late in the day the issue landed on my desk.

Nowadays, when someone comes with an issue that needs 80 hours of work and needs to be sorted by tomorrow, I don’t volunteer any help or information as I know that taking on that job is not going to make me look as helpful and a good team player but as incompetent as I wouldn’t be able to sort the issue properly in such a limited time AND it will reduce the time I have for my own tasks or make me miss my own deadlines.

Another voice saying look in to job sharing. My current role is often 7.30-7.30, but that’s doable three days a week (plus the odd weekend morning). I would burn out if I did it full time, but as half of a traditional jobshare (we jointly manage the team, one inbox, one calendar, essentially one corporate person) it’s a nice balance of challenge and work/life balance.

There's got to be a better solution than this? This really isn't going to work in an organisation with a promo culture.

If you are really good, and it's a good culture they will work with you to make it work.

Off the top my head

1. Go part time
2. Step down to senior manager
3. Take a step down to senior manager and go part time (this is probably the easiest sell - they could use the funding for the vacant post and they would retain your knowledge and you'd be in a position to use it)
4. Get the promotion, once you get past a certain point you can control your hours better (although you're already very senior so this possibly doesn't apply here)
5. Get a different senior level less stressful job.
6. Get professional coaching to help with your work life balance
7. Become a contractor, you get to do the doing, you control your hours and there's none of the oddness of becoming a junior

Could you have a session with a mentor? Does your company offer this?

I think OP is at the level where she should be able to influence culture somewhat. This is a very opportune moment to get professionals in to assess & address the burnout problem.

If it is allowed to persist it will eventually erode all the strengths that exist lower down.

This isn’t an OP problem, it’s an organisational problem, so individual solutions aren’t doing to fix it (except jumping ship - but these problems are common and your organisation at least sounds salvageable!

@Fiep how much does it cost roughly for your company to do this work? I'm guessing it's expensive? And then reduced hours afterwards from staff... Might be a hard sell to management?

@jellyjellyinmybelly depends on the size of the company & number of employees. If you want a more exact idea feel free to PM me to find out what’s usual- don’t want to derail the thread lol

It’s not that hard a sell generally, as the solutions aren’t always as drastic as reducing hours, could be resilience training; reflective practice; counselling; coping skills workshops; company culture interventions etc.