AIBU not to clean the house at the end of a tenancy

[Notthatkeen]

I have served my landlord notice to leave and they have given me a checklist of issues which are either (a) fair and I accept I need to pay for them (b) outrageous or (c) unfair but I know it is likely they will get away with it.

I won't go into full details because they are outing but when I moved in I stupidly didn't take my own photos and the landlord said they would share theirs but never did and I forgot to follow up (please don't judge me there were extreme reasons as to why I moved in in such a rush, head wasn't in the right place). Now the photos they have given me in support of their 'checklist issues' the condition of certain items, walls, carpets etc look very good and much better then when I moved in but I can't prove it.

I know I am foolish for not taking my own photos (lesson learnt). I know I can challenge and probably win on some points but all of my dealings with my landlord have been exhausting and I think they will get away with the unfair (but not outrageous) stuff.

On to my AIBU... I know I have to clean at the end of a tenancy and have sought quotes from professional cleaners. The cost of the landlord's preferred cleaner is around half my deposit. The value of the fair issues raised by my landlord also amount to around half the deposit. So say the the deposit is £1,000 and the cleaners are £500.

If I pay cleaners and lose my full deposit (unfairly but I can't prove it) to the landlord the cost to me is £1,500. If I do I not pay for cleaning the landlord will take it out of my deposit so my cost is limited to £1,000.

AIBU to even be considering doing this? I realise it makes me sound like a terrible person but I hate the thought of my landlord getting away with this.

Vote yes for you are being unreasonable and should organise and pay for cleaning

Vote no for let the landlord take it out of your deposit

So as not to drip feed I don't have any issues needing a reference so that isn't a concern. I can prove that the cleaning company is the one the landlord uses so am not at risk of them using a more expensive one. Also, I don't think my landlord would try to pursue me the courts for what they allege I owe that won't be covered by the deposit as while I think they are prepared to be unscrupulous in retaining a deposit I doubt they would take their fibs to court - it is a risk though.

To answer your question OP, yes, that makes perfect sense to not pay for the clean and just leave the landlord to retain the deposit. If you rent via an agent then the agent probably can get the landlord a professional cleaner for a better price anyway so your landlord may not lose out as much as you think. I would not give a moment’s thought to any “moral” downside if just walking away and letting the landlord keep the deposit. Maybe don’t leave it a total shithole though, just in case that galvanises the landlord to come after you for any damage over and above the deposit.

@user1497207191

Your liability may not be limited to the deposit. If his costs are more, he may pursue you through the courts.

She acknowledges this in the OP and says that she has assessed this risk as low!

It's a lot of money to just give up on. I really would fight it. You can apply to get the deposit returned and you can do the cleaning yourself and fake a receipt for A. N. Other Cleaner. "Preferred" is a suggestion, not a demand. I honestly would DIY and fake it and prepare to be a squeaky wheel about getting your money back. Pp have mentioned talking to CAB, Shelter etc. You will get guidance on the situation. At least try.

My housemate & I faked our check out clean. We thought we could do it ourselves, realised the day before that they expected a receipt as proof of cleaning and decided to still do it ourselves but hand in a forged receipt I'd made out for my mum's cleaner. It worked and we got everything back- no extra cleaning charges added, even with a horrendous mould problem. Actually, I think they were a bit scared of us over that (we fought the LL like crazy) and avoided pissing us off reckoning we'd refuse to pay even an extra penny- so the EA gave us everything back so we'd just go away.

For info if you go on to rent somewhere else, I’m thinking that there must have been no agent involved in your tenancy because there was no proper check in process. Normally an inventory company will take the photos and they will be put in a report with clear descriptions of the condition, which you will sign when you check in, ie it’s not left up to you to take your own photos and there is an agreed mutual record of move-in condition. I’m a landlord and this is what I always do. On check out the same company do another check and then recommend deductions, I sign off on what I want to deduct and then it goes to the deposit holding company, who deal with any tenant objections, though I’ve never had one because I usually rein in the more OTT suggestions for deductions.

You do not need to hire professional cleaners, it doesn't matter what the contact says.
Go to citizens advice and they'll tell you the same

It depends on the damage that you're agreeing with. If you're leaving the LL with a major job to make the place fit to rent again I would say it's morally wrong to just walk away and lose the deposit. It sounds like you think you have left the place in a state if you are happy to not challenge anything.

Challenge it.

I was in a similar situation and took it to the deposit scheme. Was charged £50 for cleaning and damages as opposed to the £400 my landlord wanted to take.

Well worth the time it took (which wasn't long, it was a paper form back then but I'm sure it will be online now). They tend to favour the tennant more than the landlord.

I’ve been a LL and a tenant (sometimes at the same time).

Do B.

Don’t feel guilty.

@Aquamarine1029

Is your flat really so dirty that you need a professional cleaner? A £500 cleaning sounds extreme, something you would only expect for a place that is absolutely filthy.

It’s what we were quoted for a slightly grubby house. I’ve never understood the “professional cleaner” thing, it’s not as if they possess magical powers the rest of us don’t have.

Wow that’s pretty insulting to cleaners @Blossomtoes.

@HaveringWavering

Wow that’s pretty insulting to cleaners *@Blossomtoes*.

What? Suggesting they don’t have magical powers? 🤣

They tend to favour the tennant more than the landlord
I would say it very much depends on how good the landlord is as putti go their case forward.

I took two disputes to arbitration and got 95% of the money claimed in both instances.

The scheme will accept any invoices occured by the landlord as reasonable unless overly inflated.

I don't get at all why OP wouldn't just clean the place herself. It must be in quite a state to say it would take too long and admits damages. It doesn't sound good at all. Costs can inflate quickly. It's a bit naive to think they wouldn't take you to court. It doesn't costs much to do so and its not that hard.

It really makes no sense to put yourself at risk because you can't be bothered to clean the place you've lived in and surely shouldn't be a complete tip.

What are the 'fair' issues that you accept are valued at £500 (I know that's a sample figure).

Surely it's normal wear & tear, what did you do that you are passively ok with the £500 charge?

I really do not understand why people are some passive about getting their bond back. Its your money FFS. What is your hourly rate, OP? Is it not worth your while to put some work in?

Any dealings with my landlord are in writing. If I phone them, I follow up in writing. I make it clear that I expect my bond back and will certainly dispute any attempts to take it. I always get my bond back because they know I will. They don't want the hassle, no matter what they say to you.

I really appreciate everyone who has understood and actually answered my AIBU.

I note many others think I am dirty, passive, lazy or even the Queen! I am not any of those but it has been quite intriguing to see posters' assumptions.

Thank you.

You do have a third option though, OP. Use a professional cleaning end of tenancy service that has a guarantee.

How have you managed to rack up damages worth £500 though?
I would say if you have actually damaged the place like that then it's probably filthy too so morally you should pay for cleaning.

I definitely wouldn't get it cleaned. Not with your circumstances as you've described it.

I've rented a lot and found that they always find fault no matter what you do. I don't think I've ever not been charged for cleaning no matter what I've done.

Which I wouldn't mind if every rental place you got was actually clean when you move in. I don't remember one that looked professionally cleaned.

FFS people acting like I must have caused damage and saying that the place must be filthy is actually starting to irritate me.

It is not dirty, I have a regular cleaner.

I have not been a neglectful nor careless tenant. It is a large property and I do not live here on my own, the deposit deductions I accept are generally minor things that add up in a large property at full occupancy and with a pet.

I have appreciated people's constructive comments but I really object to people labelling me as filthy. That's just unnecessary, untrue and unpleasant.

Wait, if you have a regular cleaner just get her to do a few extra hours at the end of the tenancy. She’s a professional cleaner, it’s entirely within the requirements of the lease. At say £12/hour you could get 8 hours from her for £100.

I know you didn’t ask for advice re the £500 damage (and I already answered your initial question) but your update really does make me think that they will struggle to convince the deposit agency of £500 of damage. To give you an idea, the inventory company who do my report and recommendations for deductions when I change tenant don’t usually suggest any deductions for normal wear and tear. And they are acting for me! But they know that won’t pass muster with the independent assessor.

@Notthatkeen

FFS people acting like I must have caused damage and saying that the place must be filthy is actually starting to irritate me.

It is not dirty, I have a regular cleaner.

I have not been a neglectful nor careless tenant. It is a large property and I do not live here on my own, the deposit deductions I accept are generally minor things that add up in a large property at full occupancy and with a pet.

I have appreciated people's constructive comments but I really object to people labelling me as filthy. That's just unnecessary, untrue and unpleasant.

Unless you are filthy and neglectful then it’s highly highly unlikely there are £500 of fair deductions.

That’s why people are asking. I’ve had a tenant move out of a property that was way too small (the joys of unexpected extra children) who had two dogs and a cat and there wasn’t £500 I could (or would) fairly keep from her deposit.

Keep in mind with minor things that the LL is only entitled to a proportional amount not betterment. That is something many many LL’s conveniently forget.

Hi there always take pics when you move in so compare when leave - many letting companies make a fortune by getting money at end of tenancy rentals even if cleaned by tenant they will often claim it’s not good enough and charge for cleaners anyway tricky one

@user1471464702

Hi there always take pics when you move in so compare when leave - many letting companies make a fortune by getting money at end of tenancy rentals even if cleaned by tenant they will often claim it’s not good enough and charge for cleaners anyway tricky one

I don't deny that letting agents can be a bit dodgy but they don't make money by charging for end-of -tenancy cleans- the cleaner submits a bill and the landlord pays it. It's then either deducted from the deposit or, if the tenant contests it and deposit company agree, landlord sucks it up. How do you think agent would make money- kickback from cleaning company?

This thread makes no sense. You've got a cleaner but the work they do that you pay for is not going to be good enough. Why not?

You've accepted damage worth quite a lot, what have you done and why didn't you do anything about it before?

My fut feeling is that it's all for to do with the pet. One of those that destroys things. Maybe a dog that has weed on the carpet or left poo all over the garden?

Those figures were theoretical. I suspect the damage is a lot more than £500 if OP lives in a large property in London, the deposit on a 1 bedroom flat would be more than £1500 at London prices.

I don't know why people are giving the OP such a hard time saying she must have living in filth and are surprised that there is £500 probably a lot more worth of damage. It could just be 1 or 2 expensive items/jobs - a new sofa scratched by a cat, newish carpet with a permanent stain or burn, table that has an accidental water mark that needs french polishing, a cracked tile, a mattress that has a stain.

Even a house that has been regularly cleaned to a high standard will need extras doing for an end of tenancy professional level clean (assuming it was at that standard when OP moved in) - oven and extractor fan cleaning, window washing, carpets cleaning, curtains/blinds/upholstery cleaning, every last trace of limescale removing. Cleaning companies charge a premium for end of tenancy cleaning and won't provide the full range of services if you use their ordinary one off cleaning service. If you use a private individual, they probably won't offer a guarantee that you will get your deposit back.