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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU not to clean the house at the end of a tenancy

86 replies

Notthatkeen · 01/07/2021 15:24

I have served my landlord notice to leave and they have given me a checklist of issues which are either (a) fair and I accept I need to pay for them (b) outrageous or (c) unfair but I know it is likely they will get away with it.

I won't go into full details because they are outing but when I moved in I stupidly didn't take my own photos and the landlord said they would share theirs but never did and I forgot to follow up (please don't judge me there were extreme reasons as to why I moved in in such a rush, head wasn't in the right place). Now the photos they have given me in support of their 'checklist issues' the condition of certain items, walls, carpets etc look very good and much better then when I moved in but I can't prove it.

I know I am foolish for not taking my own photos (lesson learnt). I know I can challenge and probably win on some points but all of my dealings with my landlord have been exhausting and I think they will get away with the unfair (but not outrageous) stuff.

On to my AIBU... I know I have to clean at the end of a tenancy and have sought quotes from professional cleaners. The cost of the landlord's preferred cleaner is around half my deposit. The value of the fair issues raised by my landlord also amount to around half the deposit. So say the the deposit is £1,000 and the cleaners are £500.

If I pay cleaners and lose my full deposit (unfairly but I can't prove it) to the landlord the cost to me is £1,500. If I do I not pay for cleaning the landlord will take it out of my deposit so my cost is limited to £1,000.

AIBU to even be considering doing this? I realise it makes me sound like a terrible person but I hate the thought of my landlord getting away with this.

Vote yes for you are being unreasonable and should organise and pay for cleaning

Vote no for let the landlord take it out of your deposit

So as not to drip feed I don't have any issues needing a reference so that isn't a concern. I can prove that the cleaning company is the one the landlord uses so am not at risk of them using a more expensive one. Also, I don't think my landlord would try to pursue me the courts for what they allege I owe that won't be covered by the deposit as while I think they are prepared to be unscrupulous in retaining a deposit I doubt they would take their fibs to court - it is a risk though.

OP posts:
ArabellaStrange · 01/07/2021 18:27

Fuck landlords. Challenge it. Don't be a doormat.
Having major issues with the place I have been in for just over a month, including a fucking fire started the other night, because of fucking shoddy electrical work regarding the oven.
Houses and places to live should not be an option for people looking to line their pockets.

Original poster
Notthatkeen · 01/07/2021 19:00

Everyone telling me to challenge it I haven’t ruled that out and I am fully aware of the dos and don't. But if I do I will be no financially better off than if I do what I am proposing which is less hassle but what I am considering just doesn't quite sit right with me morally so that is the whole point of my AIBU!!

OP posts:
FortniteBoysMum · 01/07/2021 21:09

The people holding bonds tend to favour the tenant. In one of our last rentals before buying a house the landlord served us notice days before Christmas. He tried to keep all of our deposit and wanted more on top. He said in Greece because he said he wanted it he would get it. Well that does not work here. He tried to charge us for a new bathroom. (It was outdated when we moved in) also tried to charge us for a new garage door shutter. That fell off when we were moving out because it was so old and rusty. We said on a number of times it was a death trap. Almost fell on my partner. The list of things he was trying to bill us for was shocking but then he planned to move into it and thought we would pay his renovation costs. I think he got a grand total of nothing. If they don't accept reasonable wear and tear for length of time the property was lived in they will see the landlord for a money grabber. We borrowed my mums carpet cleaner as I was not paying someone to do it like he wanted. Sugar soap and water on the walls to remove the worst marks clean the cooker, bathroom and the windows. Job done

BatshitCrazyWoman · 01/07/2021 21:57

I moved out of a rented flat in February. Cleaned it myself and got my full deposit back. I had a decent landlord who took check in and check out photos when I was with her. She even remarked that I'd got a mark out of the carpet that professional cleaners hadn't managed. I'd clean it yourself and appeal.

JustLyra · 01/07/2021 22:03

@Notthatkeen

Everyone telling me to challenge it I haven’t ruled that out and I am fully aware of the dos and don't. But if I do I will be no financially better off than if I do what I am proposing which is less hassle but what I am considering just doesn't quite sit right with me morally so that is the whole point of my AIBU!!
How will you be no better off?
CSIblonde · 01/07/2021 22:05

Ah, but define 'professional cleaner'.... Theres your get out re ridiculous charges Go on Task Rabbit, the going rate for a two hour clean varies from £18-30 an hour. Ask them to give you an invoice. If not, there are invoice templates on Word & PowerPoint .....change a few fonts, for authentic look, add details of your clean, job done.

Daphnise · 01/07/2021 22:12

Since you are it seems disinclined to fight in any way, just leave and let them keep the whole deposit.

Unless you change your attitude though, you are going to have similar problems wherever you go!

Original poster
Notthatkeen · 01/07/2021 23:20

To all who have replied many thanks but it seems I haven't explained clearly for most and that is clearly my fault.

Scenario A

£1000 in deposit scheme

£500 to fairly be retained by landlord for accepted damage

£500 to pay for cleaning (not doing this myself I will be paying and am fine with this)

£500 unreasonable expenses claimed by landlord

Total cost to me £1500

Of course if I successfully challenge the unreasonable retention and £500 is returned I have paid in total £1000 but risk the £500 not being returned and have to bear the initial outlay of the £500 for the cleaning.

Scenario B

As before £1000 in deposit scheme

£500 to fairly be retained by landlord for accepted damage

£500 for professional cleaning which I do not pay and landlord must deduct from deposit

£500 unreasonable expenses claimed by landlord but there is nothing left in deposit to pay so my costs are limited to £1000

As stated above no anticipated pursuit for balance of 'debt' in court.

AIBU question is:
Is there anything morally wrong with the second scenario as it is less hassle and risk for me than scenario A and I limit my outgoings to £1000 without having to pay £500 for cleaning in the hope and risk that I get some of my deposit back.

This isn't about whether I should challenge my landlord as I am fully aware of my rights to do so. It is assessing a monetary / moral quandary. Also all those saying pay for cleaning and challenge are handing opportunity for landlord to 'win' (however unlikely that may be) an extra £500 from me. Scenario B removes all risk of them being unjustly enriched.

Further my challenging the landlord doesn't give me a financial benefit as far as I can see based on the above.

I really appreciate the time people have taken to comment but I just wish I could get more feedback on my AIBU moral question.

OP posts:
JustLyra · 01/07/2021 23:41

What the heck have you done to the place that you’re accepting £500 damages without any discussion?

BatshitCrazyWoman · 02/07/2021 05:40

I don't think you have to pay for a 'professional end of tenancy clean'. Find a one off cleaner to do it. And yes, what 'damage' have you done that costs £500??

strawberrydonuts · 02/07/2021 06:00

It all depends what it says in your contract.

Does it say that you agreed to pay for professional cleaning at the end of the tenancy? If so, then you will have to. Usually though they don't. Usually it says they require the carpets to be professionally cleaned (about £100 normally) and the rest of the place you can just do yourself.

Regarding the other issues, I would be asking if they have evidence of the date those photos was taken and disputing that that was the condition when you moved in. They have to proved that you caused the damage in order to charge you. You don't have to prove your innocence. If there was no inventory they don't have much of a leg to stand on.

strawberrydonuts · 02/07/2021 06:02

I can't be bothered with the stress and faff. I am trying to find a shortcut

Yeah... I get it, but unfortunately your landlord sounds like an arse, who is happy to challenge and make false accusations. So it is going to require a bit of effort if you want to keep your money :( But you should do it for the principle.

RoseGoldEagle · 02/07/2021 06:10

10 years ago I would have said to take the moral option and pay what I felt was fair and fight the rest BUT I’ve had so many landlords try and cheat me out of money that I think if I ever rented again, I’d go with your Option B without losing too much sleep. If I knew he’d be trying to take £500 from me that I DIDN’T agree with, I’d not be handing £500 over for something that I did agree with, I’d withhold that to offset the money I knew he was cheating me out of. I know what you mean about the hassle. Also same with photos- we rented somewhere when we moved right after having a baby and I didn’t take any photos- when I moved out the landlord pointed out a hairline crack in the en-suite bathroom and tried to get us to pay for a new sink as she said we must have dropped something heavy on it. That was one of about 10 things she tried to charge me for- I successfully fought all of them but it’s so tiring. Thankfully in that case the letting agent had pictures of the properly from before we were in it that showed the crack was already there.

OhGiveUp · 02/07/2021 06:20

The landlord cannot withhold your deposit or part of your deposit.
Your deposit is held by the TDS and they will only release all or part of it if no dispute is raised by either the tenant or the landlord.
The TDS are also adjudicators, they will decide how much, if anything the landlord will be given from the deposit before returning all or part of the deposit to the tenant.
So your landlord can stamp his feet all he wants.

BatshitCrazyWoman · 02/07/2021 06:31

@strawberrydonuts

It all depends what it says in your contract.

Does it say that you agreed to pay for professional cleaning at the end of the tenancy? If so, then you will have to. Usually though they don't. Usually it says they require the carpets to be professionally cleaned (about £100 normally) and the rest of the place you can just do yourself.

Regarding the other issues, I would be asking if they have evidence of the date those photos was taken and disputing that that was the condition when you moved in. They have to proved that you caused the damage in order to charge you. You don't have to prove your innocence. If there was no inventory they don't have much of a leg to stand on.

I think the law has changed for tenancies started after a certain date, and tenancy agreements can no longer stipulate a professional (extortionate) cleaner, that charges £100 an hour or something ridiculous. My tenancy didn't require it.
Thisnamewasnttaken123 · 02/07/2021 06:38

I had to use the deposit protection scheme when I used to rent after I had a rogue landlord trying to get money out of me, they thought they had the upper hand saying they wanted 240 for things that were fair wear and tear and didn't even amount up to that anyway.
I applied to get my deposit back and I received all of it back.
I would clean myself, take photos then apply to get it back it's fairly easy to do so try not to look at it as hassle as it will save you money.

Hill1991 · 02/07/2021 06:39

They cannot use them photos ive rented along time in 5 different properties and all off them apart from my first one had photos taken by the landlord and printed out that I had to sign each photo to say that's what's the property was like when I first moved in.

Also if your phone using a removal firm some off them offer after tenancy cleaning which they also take photos for you after they have cleaned so you have your own proof that the property as left in a good condition.

13579db · 02/07/2021 06:46

Unless there is actual physicaldamage to walls windows floors or bathrooms or kitchen damage, then what's the worry about here?

Just get it professionally cleaned, take photos of the receipt and TAKE PHOTOS of the cleaned up property inside and outside

Give landlord this receipt when u leave.

Be pleasant but don't fall over yourself to be nice to your landlord. Most aggro comes from people when they get aggro in the first place from others so just smile and wave and chat about the virus or something. Small talk OP.

Move on to better and brighter things.

Nothing bad will happen - you'll have a receipt from a professional clean which is worth its weight in gold

Good luck

Monsterjuice · 02/07/2021 07:00

Op you want to google "exif data viewer" download whatever free and put the images through it. Ideally they will have been emailed to you as WhatsApp scrubs the data.

Cameras record the date into the picture even if it's not shown its in the data

FindingMeno · 02/07/2021 07:05

If it makes financial sense not to get a cleaning company in, then don't.
Obviously don't leave it minging, but if you are getting screwed over then all bets are off and you look after you.

chaosrabbitland · 02/07/2021 07:09

my ex landlady was an abosolute cow and when she served me notice to leave i promtly cancelled the last months rent and told her to keep the deposit . that way you are getting your deposit back as in your just not paying your last months rent , obviously its very naughty to do this and definatly not if you need a reference , but you have said you dont so thats not an issue for you .

i didnt have anything to lose doing it at all as she was making us homeless anyway , as a single parent in receipt of housing benefits i quickly found how impossible it is to rent now . i knew she was going to be difficult about giving the deposit back as id had to battle with her to do any kind of repairs ,in the end the council had to inspect and ordered her to do them so when i told her i was not paying last months rent and she could keep the deposit it was really i felt the only option . i knew shed do everything to keep it as she hated me by then and i was past giving a shit . i did get a fuming email threating this and that to which i politely told her to fuck off she wasnt getting a penny out of me .. and she did i moved out and i never heard another thing from her

Temp023 · 02/07/2021 07:12

Christ, £500!

Are you finally moving to a retirement flat, your Majesty?

Mandalay246 · 02/07/2021 07:15

I wouldn't dream of hiring professionals to clean a place when I left. Just do it yourself - how bad can it be?

Faithless12 · 02/07/2021 07:25

According to this link since 1 June regardless of the start date of the tenancy it’s no longer legal to demand a professional clean at the end of tenancy:
homelet.co.uk/tenants/tips-for-tenants/end-of-tenancy-how-clean-is-clean

user1497207191 · 02/07/2021 07:40

Your liability may not be limited to the deposit. If his costs are more, he may pursue you through the courts.