Am I just that type of person?

[imissguitarsolos]

Name changed for this.

I recently have changed jobs and I got invited out for a meal by a woman on my new team I’ve got friendly with but haven’t yet met in person (not been into the office yet but have been chatting remotely)

She was going out with a couple others from my workplace last night but she’s the only one in my team and so asked if I wanted to come.

I was nervous as I didn’t know anyone else but pushed myself to go and be social and they were all friendly enough, but one woman just made me feel really uncomfortable. She was quite overbearing and I just got the impression she didn’t like me from the beginning.

She was the story teller of the table so everyone would be listening to her stories but when I had something to say she talked over me constantly. e.g she’d ask me a question and then either just talked over me or stopped listening half way through me talking and start talking to someone else. Once she just brought her phone out during me answering her question and started texting, so I stopped talking and then when she’d finished and I started talking again she said loudly ‘fucking hell this is taking a while!’ and roll eyes her eyes at the woman opposite. I thought yes because you keep interrupting me!

Then I noticed her screwing her nose up at things I said throughout the night at the woman opposite when I was speaking and when I asked certain questions I felt she laughed at me and brought it to others attention in a ‘look how stupid she is’ sort of way.

Also she kept forgetting my name or saying it wrong and she’d say (loud) sorry I’ve forgotten your name again and laugh.

I’m a fairly quiet and introverted person and to push myself out of my comfort zone like this was a big thing for me, but now I keep thinking over the night and how I don’t want to socialise with them again and put myself through feeling like the outsider.

I have always had a couple of close friends in life but always seem to be treated this way by other people. I was psychologically bullied by a group of girls in school and then was the ‘hanger on’ in Uni. I would always be talked over/excluded in groups and then in my last job I was in a lovely team and now I’ve moved on I just feel like the excluded girl again. I’m starting to think there’s something about me and who I am that makes others respond to me this way.

People say I’m friendly and bubbly and kind, so why then do I always get treated like I’m an after thought or just not worth people’s time? I keep feeling really teary today, I think it’s brought everything back. I keep asking myself why am I so worthless in people’s minds.

I would say the weak people in this scenario are the rest of the group that tolerate this. Surely, this woman's annoyed and rude because the OP asserted herself over the texting. I would imagine the rude woman does not perceive her as weak and that is half the problem- this is why she is challenging her. I think in the end, the rude type of person described in the OP are seen for what they are and end up alone as they piss off too many people in the course of their interactions. However, it seems like the group don't have strong characters at the moment so that outcome is not going to happen.

I agree with the comment about being friends with colleagues. I have quite an isolated job and I cover two organisations in my role so I haven't established great work friendships but it is easier in a way as if tricky work issues come up that you have to approach someone about, this happens loads in my role, then you worry about this stuff more.

Haha @Drivingmeupthewall I was also wondering whether @AmyandPhilipfan is called Amanda She sounds like hard work with a chip on her shoulder.

OP the lady was rude. Nothing to do with you and don’t listen to posters like this saying you were passive aggressive- they’re just projecting onto you.

@TeamNegan

I’m very much like you OP, an anxious over thinker! I find myself in these types of situations often as I’m also a people pleaser and unfortunately it seems to attract the worst kinds of people. I am in therapy for it at the moment and she has recommended the book “The Games People Play” - not sure if you’d find it useful/interesting to understand why some people behave the way they do.

I don’t have any advice but just wanted to sympathise as it’s pretty hard work

I feel like starting a club, the anxious over thinkers Thank you I have two books I’m going to read now.

I know I need to work on my assertiveness and not take things to heart but it’s so deeply engrained in who I am that I do struggle.

If you have this ingrained sense of yourself as an unwelcome and uninteresting hanger-on, is it possible this emerges in your manner when you’re out with people? Do you sound meek and apologetic, or does your body language say ‘I know I’m boring you’?

Even if this is the case, it doesn’t excuse rudeness and unkindness.

Surely, this woman's annoyed and rude because the OP asserted herself over the texting

I really didn’t think I was. I thought it’d be ruder to keep talking at her whilst she was texting, especially as she asked the question.

I was projecting myself there though as I can’t talk/listen and type.

I will say she was rude before this though, it wasn’t the cause

Yes she's nasty but how lovely is the woman that invited you? You are new and she didn't want to leave you out. Classic example how you get one rotten apple in a bunch. So going forward ignore her and don't try to win her approval in any way. In turn she will be nastier, but people will begin noticing that too and it will bite her back. Good for you for going out with them.

I can relate to that as it is really hard, I totally get where you are coming from if that is what you have known. My Mum is a people pleaser and over thinker but my Dad is the complete opposite, bombastic, opinionated, pretty fearless so I have a mixture of references that make me a bit feisty and I won't be a doormat. I also attend sessions run by a woman I know on boundaries, assertiveness in your personal life and as a woman. It's the kind of thing that would be mocked on Mumsnet as hippy dippy nonsense and I was sceptical but lots of it does resonate with me. I has shown me how to care less and put myself first which I think is an important step in building your self esteem.

@finallymightbehappening

Out of interest what was the question and what was your answer (if not too revealing!).

She asked where in X I lived. I replied and she didn’t know where that was, and asked how you got there, so I started explaining, “you know X, well you go…” then she pulled her phone out.

An absolutely nothing conversation but it was one of several times she just interpreted me talking. I should’ve just carried on and moved the conversation on without her in hindsight.

Yes @imissguitarsolos start a club, I’ll join

Assertiveness is really just not in my nature, I’ve no idea where to even begin! For me boundaries/assertiveness feel “rude” and tricky to implement!

@TeamNegan

Yes *@imissguitarsolos* start a club, I’ll join

Assertiveness is really just not in my nature, I’ve no idea where to even begin! For me boundaries/assertiveness feel “rude” and tricky to implement!

That’s exactly how I feel. I think if I’d asserted myself in anyway last night I would have come across rude and I’d be worried they’d think ‘who does she think she is’

Yes, I do get it, it was my Mum who encouraged me to change in this area as she said she had come to realise in her late 60's that most of her life has involved people pleasing. She was now going to stop doing that and actually stand up herself and say, 'no' to things she didn't want to do and not give it a second thought as so many people seem to behave in that way. In all honesty she has gone to extremes in this way of living and sometimes I'm taken aback by how quick she is to say no.

I'd say the gobshite was threatened by you, being new, you might take her limelight! Probably everyone else finds her superficially entertaining but also rude and tedious, and lacking in social skills. She sounds like a real energy vampire.

I was invited to join my organisation's Christmas meal before I started. One thing I was really impressed with was how people took it in turns to tell stories and encourage one another to contribute, and listen to one another properly. And not talk over one another or shut anyone down. It was lovely, and rare!

Perhaps you'll be able to have drinks with some members of the team in future and not include her.

One tactic is to talk to the person next to you and start a different conversation off away from the noisy person. Another is, when you notice the noisy gobshite has shut someone down in a group, to support the quieter person and ask that person to speak instead.

Bob, I thought what you said about pangolins was interesting. Do they really have no teeth?

Also, realise that the gobshite is likely incredibly insecure. Some people deal with this by being quiet, some people deal with it by needing to fill any silence, as they cannot cope with silence.

Also if someone interrupts/talks over you, find an ally, catch their eye, shake your heads and have a good laugh out loud at the expense at the gobshite and their poor manners.

@Staffy1

If you have this ingrained sense of yourself as an unwelcome and uninteresting hanger-on, is it possible this emerges in your manner when you’re out with people? Do you sound meek and apologetic, or does your body language say ‘I know I’m boring you’?

Even if this is the case, it doesn’t excuse rudeness and unkindness.

It certainly doesn't, but either the OP decides that every single time this has happened in her life which she says is often that it is down to other people being rude and unkind (in which case she can't do anything about it) or she acknowledges that her behaviour may be contributing to the dynamic, in which case she can alter things? In fairness, in her first post, she does ask the question about whether it's something to do with her.

People like her need putting in their place, " I am not done Janet, when they find the centre of the universe, you won't be there. "

I can definitely relate to the OP, and this women sounds like a nightmare. I know how disappointing it is when you push yourself to go to an event like this, and instead of it turning out you were worrying over nothing, it's as bad or worse than you thought.

I guess the only thing I would say is don't over think it. OK, this one night didn't go well. That doesn't mean you are hopeless, people hate you, etc. Don't attach any other meaning to it, don't analyse it. It doesn't reflect your personality.

No advice OP, sorry. Group dynamics are difficult to navigate. I've been watching Motherland and it's so spot on observing the hierarchy and how people jostle against each other. The woman sounds like and Amanda, while you're more Kevin/Anne.

I know how you feel. I’m an introvert and people-pleaser and I’ve been in similar situations several times. The only problem that I can see is that you tried to adapt your behaviour around hers. I don’t think it’s a sign of weakness or lack of confidence that you tried, but it just doesn’t work with people like her. Her response was quite typical of her kind. I would avoid her in future and you’ve been given good advice here on how to turn down future invitations. As long as you stay polite, you’re behaving correctly.

You come across as a sensible, kind person. I would not worry about becoming more assertive if I were you unless it starts to interfere with your ability to earn a living and look after yourself or with your happiness. I grew up in a family of extroverts and forceful characters where my personality never quite fit in. I listened to, and tried to follow much advice over the years from people who thought I should be helped to come out of my shell, be more visible etc. Counsellors, therapists of various sorts, friends, line managers etc. I’m in my early 50’s now and with the benefit of hindsight I frankly think they were wrong. Assertiveness is an overrated quality in my opinion. Giving up on all that pressure to ‘improve myself’ and making peace with how I am has made me feel much better. I interact with very few people and since resigning from my job, I’ve pretty much become a loner. I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. I’m not saying this is how it will work for you but there’s a deluge of advice out there about what we should do and how we should be to be happy. My advice would be to listen to yourself and not to bow to the pressure to conform.

This is not remotely your fault. As my therapist would say, "When somebody behaves in a certain way - whatever that way is - it is because of them, not because of you." So even if there was a trigger (and from what you've said I doubt it), she chose to behave in that horrible way.

@godmum56, exactly this. Like OP, I am the perennial people-pleaser/'nice girl'. In my last job, a woman joined my team and it was very clear to me that she was testing out who would allow her to treat them badly. She had major power and control issues and something about me clearly invited her to target me. She wasn't overtly mean, but relished in subtly trying to make me feel like I was 'less than'. She would undermine my performance in front of other colleagues she deemed 'high status' (bear in mind I am talking about a nursery FFS) by saying things like "Don't worry, Everything, WE don't think you're slow" or pointing out with faux-concern at my leaving dinner how many people who had been invited were 'unable to make it' or how other people who had left were given gift cards. I'm sure you know the kind of behaviour. Written down it sounds like nothing, but the intentions of the bully during the interactions are very clear.

She also let me know very confidently in front of all my colleagues that I would never be promoted to the supervisor position. I should have smashed her crystal ball over her fucking head.

Hate people like this - I'd just avoid her. Don't talk to her, don't engage, make HER feel uncomfortable if she tries to say a rude thing to the group ie. she's forgotten your name. Like a little cold smile and 'oh, don't worry', and then turn away to talk to someone else. If she feels like an idiot she won't do it.

It seems like others are nice and friendly so just talk to them.