Running directly behind a Horse 😱😱!

[StephieSlade]

AIBU to think that even non horsey people should know not to run up directly behind a horse? I came off on Sunday after my mare spooked and stumbled after a small child, and her dog ran up behind her. Child's parents were slightly further back along the bridle path. Thankfully my horse doesn't kick, and I'm not blaming the child for my fall, as I'd have sat the scuttle forward, if she hadn't tripped. However, I'm cringing at the thought of that, or another child running up behind another horse on the street that possibly might kick😣😣😣.

Horses and humans have coexisted in daily life, in cities and farms and on battlefields, for thousands of years. They're wonderfully trainable and tolerant animals - and with good management, training and a bit of luck, they can go through life without ever putting anyone in any real danger.

There's no reason why everybody can't share outdoor spaces - posh twats on horses, peasants on the floor, lycra-fetishists on bikes - if we're all sensible and polite to each other. That includes paying attention to everyone around you and asking politely if someone's doing something daft, being friendly and explaining things if you can, and not taking offense if someone politely asks you to give them a minute. It really shouldn't be hard.

@NellWilsonsWhiteHair

Whether or not horses are just for posh people, there are a lot of people on this thread who seem to not understand that many people's lives are incredibly removed from horses and bridleways. There is a class element to this (yes NAHPALT etc) but mainly i think it's about geography.

Where I grew up (and am raising my children) is a very urban bit of London where there is no countryside and where it is not at all a 'thing' for families to go to the countryside. Most families don't even go to the local parks FFS. I reckon fewer than 50% of the parents of DS' primary school class would know what a bridle was. 'Horses are spooked when you suddenly appear behind them' is just not going to be common knowledge somewhere like here. I have learned the countryside code deliberately, as an adult, because as an adult I discovered the outdoors and the National Trust and all that sort of thing - and I'm an overthinker who over-researches and typically starts with the working assumption "I/my children probably aren't allowed to do that", so it was fairly inevitable i would seek out guidance and be cautious around all animals etc. I can absolutely see how families with a similar background to me but who are more confident in their right to be in different environments can make stupid decisions like picnicking in a random field or running up behind a horse.

I'm not saying it's on the rider to prevent this, not at all - that doesn't seem feasible. But I honestly don't think people being ignorant of horse behaviour is just sheer stupidity, and some of the sneering in this thread is off IMO. It's inexperience and unknown unknowns, is all.

I agree - there are some people who are very competent in their own (narrow) field, but as soon as they're taken out of their comfort zone they know nothing.

I'm reminded of Kaleb from Clarkson's Farm. 21, very competent at anything involving arable farming, but lives his entire life in about a 5 mile radius of his home. He was sent to London by Clarkson ("I've been to London once, on an art trip, but I didn't get off the coach, there were too many people") and he was like a fish out of water. Even pay and display parking was an alien thing for him.

Likewise there's plenty of people who are very confident navigating the inner city, know the bus routes like the back of their hand, can make money go further than most, and have a sixth sense for avoiding trouble of the criminal variety.

It's a totally different set of life skills, and sneering at townies who go out and inexpertly try to introduce their children to the countryside is akin to sneering at yokels who have no idea what an Oyster card is, think London has too many people and have never even considered visiting an art gallery.

People who push themselves beyond their own comfort boundaries should be encouraged - but they're so frequently on the receiving end of some sneering.

Ultimately, what's needed is some more education - and all education involves people making mistakes - you just have to hope the mistakes aren't as catastrophic as the PP who mentioned the toddler that was killed by a horse during a picnic.

@Muminabun

I think a lot of people see horses as like big pet dogs. Our yard is next to a country footpath and loads of people walk past and want to pet and feed the ponies and think it’s ok for their dog to mingle with them. The amount of times we have told people not to let their dogs wander into the yard and mill around by the horses legs. You can see the ponies getting into position to administer a good bite or kick. They are also greedy pushy buggers and will nip people and each other to get food.

My daughter's New Forest pony got chased the frst time my DD hacked her out - bloke let his dogs loose at the top of the (quiet country lane) to go home and they thought it fun to chase the pony. After that my DD taught him to ride AT the dogs and they would turn tail and run off, he cottoned on quickly and thereafter took great delight in thundering at a gallop to chase any loose dogs (that went through 2 fences and 1 electric) in his field. He hadn't to my knowledge injured a dog, but they were very scared, luckily the electric was set at horse intervals with a gap to the fence beyond so they had somewhere to go. Sadly we get a lot of dogs wandering about loose, as does our neighbour with his sheep (he has a reputation on FB for shooting dogs, they all think he is mean, I've seen first hand the carnage they have done to his flock, particularly bad last year. )

To answer your question simply. I’m non horsey and I know that you should never stand behind a horse.

For some reason I also have in my head that you should only mount from a particular side.. is that a myth?😂

For all the those who think it's down to the horse rider to train their horse, how do you feel when a runner / A.N. other pedestrian comes up behind you without warning?

Surely you should be well trained and not startle/react.

This is why I dislike horses. I think it's unfair of you to expect non horsey people to know what to do around horses. Why would they? This woman shouted at me the other day for cycling past her horse. I was over taking very slowly and giving it a wide berth. She said I should have made a noise so the horse knew I was there. I would have thought ringing my bell or whatever would make the horse freak out.

They are very dangerous in my opinion on the roads.

@Snufkinhastherightidea

Well if your grandad had a car you definitely were posh. If you have something to sell to buy a horse then you are well off and if you have a horse you’re not skint don’t even pretend. Most people cannot have a horse simple as.

I think you will find you have just defined over 95% of the population as posh. You can buy an ex racer for less than yhd price of a very old banger. My neighbour got hers for free straight off the track. She packs eggs for a living.

@Middlesboroughgirl

Children do run about the place. You need to keep an eye out for them. Your horse can't be kicking them.

😂😂😂

@Middlesboroughgirl

Children do run about the place. You need to keep an eye out for them. Your horse can't be kicking them.

Not around horses, cars, canals etc unless the parents aren't bothered about keeping them.

Blame the parents

@MyMabel

To answer your question simply. I’m non horsey and I know that you should never stand behind a horse.

For some reason I also have in my head that you should only mount from a particular side.. is that a myth?😂

No, not a myth, we do everything (just about) from the left including getting on, putting on saddles and bridles, rugs, leading etc. I have a dim and distant memory of being taught it came from the cavalry and was because soldiers wore their sword down their left side and so it stopped the sword catching the horses back as they swung the leg over. But also that there are more right handed than left handed people (no idea if that's true!) And so it's easier to do things from the left. In reality you should learn to do things from both sides, getting on from one side all the time can affect the horses back and your saddle, but it's still the way most people are taught and is a tradition more than anything and most fasteners on things are on the left side of the horse.

There's 2 minutes of your life, reading that, you'll never get back 🤣

@Zwellers

It honestly never occurred to me. I thought horses were trained not to kick. If they are so big strong and uncontrollable surely it's way to dangerous for everyone including the rider to be out in public with them.

You can train a horse to not kick out in aggression, which is actually rare away from a herd or food environment anyway, and you can train one to be accepting of every day things and not see them as a threat, though it does take exposure, time and patience. You can't train out instincts though, in any animal, including humans. Sudden noises, fast movement that takes a moment to decipher what it is...... Just about every mammal will jump at that. And you can't train for every eventuality, or anticipate every other persons possible action in a given situation and train for it. There has to be a point where we accept animals are not robots and they will on occasion, react in a way that actually is perfectly normal for them, regardless of training, and that's what insurance is for. In the same way we insure cars because they're being driven by a fallible human, who despite the best training in the world, can make an error of judgement or mistake, or react on instinct.

A fairly recent incident spring to mind, the police horse that had a firework thrown practically under it in the London riots, perfectly reasonable reaction to get the hell out of that situation, most humans would too. It took off home, through that crowd, after the rider was dislodged by a traffic light, and as far as I remember there was one, unsubstantiated report, of the horse knocking into someone. I think most people would agree that training an animal to stand there and accept pain would be cruel.
Police horses are highly trained to accept things humans find scary, moving towards large groups of aggressive and noisy people, jumping through fire rings, all things that horses naturally fear but are generally overcome by training. But, you can't anticipate every single scenario and there comes a point where people have to be responsible for their own conduct too, and we have to accept that genuine accidents do happen, a mixture of circumstances and luck really.

Mine wouldn't kick but he'd possibly startle violently and as he's 17hh and built like a tank he could knock someone over.

@echt

For all the those who think it's down to the horse rider to train their horse, how do you feel when a runner / A.N. other pedestrian comes up behind you without warning?

Surely you should be well trained and not startle/react.

I may jump, but I don't turn round and punch them...

I find it fascinating how people seem to expect dogs to put up with almost anything humans can throw at them, and the second they lash out in self defense (invariably after giving plenty of warning signals) there's calls for them to be put down. When a horse - which can kill a human with far less effort - lashes out in self defence there seems to be much more understanding. I'm not sure why there's such a huge variation in tolerance.

I'd personally advocate more tolerance and understanding of dogs, rather than less for horses, before anyone has a go.

Plenty of idiots out there when it comes to dogs too. Only recently - and not for the first time - an adult specifically encouraged their toddler to stroke my dog without asking first. My dog was off lead in the park, and showed absolutely no signs of wanting to be touched by either adults or children - he'd much sooner be left in peace - he was sniffing and minding his own business. He only ever wants to be touched by his favourite humans - and there's less than 5 of them in the world, including his dog walker. When I told the toddler not to touch the dog, the adults looked both surprised and offended.

Now, I know he's almost certainly not going to bite - he'd just walk away, assuming the toddler didn't actually hurt him - but they didn't know that and didn't bother to find out before sending their toddler to him.

When he's on lead (and doesn't have the fight / flight option) I've resorted to having him wear a lead slip that says "ask before stroking" because there's so many halfwits out there.

If a child runs out from behind something like a parked car directly in front of a car the driver can do nothing even if they are hyper alert. Are you one of those ghastly parents who let's their kid cause all sorts of problems and blames everyone else?

No @countrygirl99 I'm one of those drivers who had a terrifying experience where a child shot out of the park gates, ran between the cars parked at the kerb and I had to make an emergency stop just inches away from the child. That's why I know I would have been responsible.

@Bryonyshcmyony

Mine wouldn't kick but he'd possibly startle violently and as he's 17hh and built like a tank he could knock someone over.

Basically this.

My DD’s pony is sane and sensible and has never kicked or bitten.

We’ve done loads of desensitisation work with her and she copes fine with traffic, dogs, children, bikes (most of the time), etc, but she will spook sometimes. We can’t anticipate every single thing that could happen when she’s out. You can drive a large, rattling tractor past her and she won’t blink an eye but will turn into a snorty mess if you hang her rug up in her stable in a different place.

A child running at her from behind probably would induce a spook. A fellow livery’s child once screamed really loudly for no reason while standing right next to her - she spooked and swung her bum out - she could have knocked the child over. That would have made anyone jump.

We shouldn’t be allowing children to run at animals they don’t know and expect them not to react. It’s not fair.

I'd personally advocate more tolerance and understanding of dogs, rather than less for horses, before anyone has a go.

I agree. We’ve had issues with our dog as well with children running up to her, unexpectedly throwing their arms around her.

I drummed into my children how to behave appropriately around animals - mine and other peoples. They weren’t allowed to approach random dogs without asking me and the owner first. They were kids, of course they forgot sometimes so we intervened

A few runners and cyclists asking how to alert horse riders in front of their presence - just a friendly shout out - "Hi there, behind you, OK to come past?" is all we need.

I live semi rurally and there are a quite a few horses using the roads around where I keep mine and I have to say I have been fortunate in that the vast majority of drivers, agricultural vehicle drivers, cyclists and motor-cyclists are very polite and sensible - slowing down, giving us a wide berth, calling out when in earshot etc. I guess the regular road users and cyclists are used to the fact that they are likely to meet horses and act accordingly.

It's all about simple consideration on both sides. I always make sure I thank drivers, cyclists etc and give them a wave and a big smile - it makes them more likely to act considerately again next time if they know their actions are appreciated.

I find it fascinating how people seem to expect dogs to put up with almost anything humans can throw at them, and the second they lash out in self defense (invariably after giving plenty of warning signals) there's calls for them to be put down. When a horse - which can kill a human with far less effort - lashes out in self defence there seems to be much more understanding. I'm not sure why there's such a huge variation in tolerance.

For me, there's no difference between a horse or a dog reacting to a perceived or actual threat/pain and, they're both animals with limited reasoning skills, no matter how good at training you are, you can't change that.
The difference for me is that horses are prey animals and dogs predators, therefore dogs are more likely to be aggressive than horses, but by their sheer size, horses in self defense can cause more damage with little or even no intention. I've had broken bones in my foot from a horse who had flies buzzing around his front legs, maybe a horse fly taking a chunk out of him, and he stamped the foot to move them. Zero intention to hurt me, I didn't scare or startle him and nor did anything else, but by his size and power, I was hurt. It's a perfectly reasonable thing for a horse to do to prevent himself being bitten by a fly. The responsibility was mine, and I should have kept my feet out of the way!
Had a dog done that, well it might have smarted but I doubt there'd have been any damage.
I think the issue with dogs is maybe that they are perceived as aggressive when actually, they've been defensive and the person on the other side has failed to read the warning signs - for whatever reason.
The real problem though, is not people not knowing the warning signs, it's attempting to approach and interact with animals that they have no knowledge of. Owners have a duty to keep their animals under enough control that they don't interact with people uninvited, and others have a duty to not interact unsolicited unless permission is sought and they are aware of the danger that could be present.
Unfortunately, neither side can be guaranteed to uphold their side of the bargain, because that's human nature.

I'd personally advocate more tolerance and understanding of dogs, rather than less for horses, before anyone has a go.

I'd absolutely advocate that too, for all animals, we seem to forget that they are animals, we humanise them and attribute skills to them that we think they should have, but don't. Or think that owners can instill these attributes through training, a certain amount certainly can be, with most animals, but their primary instincts will always be to protect themselves, and their food source primarily.

Incidentally, I find cats more tolerated and defended than either horses or dogs, when they follow their natural instinct to roam and hunt.

If the child is too close for your stopping distance there's absolutely nothing you can do. Happened to someone I know a few years ago. The he was already in line with the van the child ran out from. He could barely react in time let alone stop. A 3 yo ran straight under his wheels and killed at less than 20mph. He has never driven again, could barely even face being a passenger for years and had a complete breakdown. Even at 10mph he couldn't have avoided the collision as confirmed by the police.

It's a totally different set of life skills, and sneering at townies who go out and inexpertly try to introduce their children to the countryside is akin to sneering at yokels who have no idea what an Oyster card is, think London has too many people and have never even considered visiting an art gallery.

A lot of the rules are the same in city and country. Things like not dropping litter, not going onto other people's private property, having a basic level of respect for others. A normal city dweller is not going to have major problems with visiting the countryside. It's the selfish ones (who are equally likely to be from the country) who cause the problems.

I'd have thought it's just plain old common sense that walking anywhere near the back end of a horse or pony is not a good idea. And that if your children are too young to exercise common sense/control, it is your job as a parent to ensure that they behave appropriately when out walking on a shared bridleway.

Would it help the understanding & improve the knowledge of all of you have say you have little or no experience of horses & ponies to explain that - as other PP have said - horses/ponies are not hunting animals.

They are prey. Thus the fight/flight instinct.

A couple of other things as part of this understanding:
their eyes tend to focus on what's ahead, and have little ability to focus to the side, so it's often stuff that comes from the back, or the side-back which spooks them.

They apparently don't see colour, but do see light & shade tones - it's why in showjumping sometimes the simplest fence has rails painted black & white - this is a challenge to a horse & its training.

They have pretty acute hearing, but coupled with the limitations to their sight, this can again, cause them to spook at things we think are perfectly safe & normal.

And for @MyMabel: For some reason I also have in my head that you should only mount from a particular side.. is that a myth?

No it's not - horses are trained for you to do everything with them from the left hand side (as you sit astride) - it's called the near side. It's to do with swords & weapons from when horses were used in battle etc. The right hand side is the 'off side".

Domesticated horses are creatures of habit & training - that's the only way - with kindness - that you a comparatively small, fragile human can control 500 kg of toey, sometimes nervous animal!

It used to drive one of my ponies mad if people tried to mount from the off-side, although we practised that a lot as part of his training. But it felt weird to me as well.

So if in doubt, try to approach a horse from the left hand side. It's the way they are used to being handled.

I love the idea of all these yokels who can't work an Oyster card, have never visited an art gallery and are completely at a loss in the city. There's plenty of folk keep horses in cities, and plenty of folk in the country who are well versed in city life too. I don't think you have to be a dyed in the wool horse person to think "hmm, damn big animal there, might squash my small and delicate child if things go wrong". How do these people cope with cattle when they meet them loose on a PROW? Maybe we should ban cattle from fields too

(Obviously I don't visit art galleries. That's what the great hall is for - all the portraits of my ancestors hung in stately glory )

It may be the responsibility of the horse owner to keep it under control, but the nature of all horses is that they can be startled and kick out. If parents allow their child to go too near a horse and the horse kicks the child in the head it's not much comfort that the owner of the horse is responsible.

Equally if you let your toddler play behind a parked car and the car reverses having not seen the child, it may be the drivers responsibility but the one to suffer will be the child.

Parents need to be aware of potential danger and ensure their child acts in a safe way around horses and any other hazards.

I remember that there used to be public information films on road safety and safety around horses.

A rider can exert a large amount of influence over a horse, mainly at the front end, but if something comes up behind it and startles it, there is precious little that can be done to stop it kicking. You can't expect this to happen. You need to teach children about potential dangers when out walking. The countryside is a dangerous place - farm vehicles, cars, rivers, horses, even cows. Expecting the world to make itself safe for you is foolish.

Surely you don't need any experience with horses to know that running up the arse end of a big animal just isn't a good idea.