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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Avoiding child maintenance

54 replies

Dogscanteatonions · 29/06/2021 07:49

Exh is now CEO of a company, he's not paid the right level of CM for over a year but I let it go for an easy life as he's not exactly easy to deal with.

I've suggested we go via the child maintenance service but he says he can change the way he gets paid (basically take home less and instead get other benefits)

The implication is if I don't agree a sum privately (which I guarantee won't be what he should be paying) and go through the CMS he will arrange his salary in a way to avoid paying as much.

So wondering if anyone has any idea if he can do this? He has a history of thisb sorry if thing when owning his own businesses but he's employed now

OP posts:
Menora · 29/06/2021 07:58

I had the same threat and it worked. Ex earned £40k and paid me £200pm.

I didn’t want to make the kids miserable by winding him up and going to CMS and then getting less anyway. He stopped CMS the same day DD1 left college

I’m not saying it’s right but I don’t speak to him anymore unless I have to, kids have their own life with me and I have worked hard to provide for them.

Can you manage on what he provides now? I have friends who basically got nothing for years or £7 a week and I wasn’t up for a mega battle. Depends though on what the difference is - is it hundreds or thousands?

Only you can decide what is best thing to do, yes he should pay but weigh up the quality of life too. Will going after the money make things worse for the kids in terms of him being unpleasant

Does he pay anything extra on top. Such as uniform or trips?
Can he have them extra nights?

I’m not saying don’t do it but factor everything else in first

Original poster
Dogscanteatonions · 29/06/2021 08:06

I can manage yes. He managed to get a nil award for years and for many years paid a pathetic amount. It's so frustrating that now he's on a decent wage he wants to avoid paying what he should.

You make a very valid point though

OP posts:
Menora · 29/06/2021 08:11

It is gross that men do this, It is vile. Trust me I do think that. I also just wanted a peaceful stable life! At least I knew was was coming and could plan for that. It’s galling though to watch them do it. I don’t know how their conscience allows it - must not have one! This threat is really common. I would counter balance this perhaps by very firmly saying he must pay 50/50 for all school trips and uniforms

Menora · 29/06/2021 08:13

I did try to demand he put on dinner money for them weekly so it didn’t pass through me and gave him the log in but he never did. I did demand he pay for uniform and trips though and wouldn’t back down.

Original poster
Dogscanteatonions · 29/06/2021 09:08

Demanding well not get me anywhere lol.

No I don't know how they live with themselves

OP posts:
Original poster
Dogscanteatonions · 29/06/2021 09:08

At a tough guys he's paying at about half what he should

OP posts:
Menora · 29/06/2021 09:11

Mediation is a suggestion. Do you have anything court ordered in a divorce? Have you had any legal advice?

When I say demand I would just turn up on doorstep at pick up time and look him right in the eye

Original poster
Dogscanteatonions · 29/06/2021 09:14

Mediation not a possibility and nothing court ordered.

It's not legal advice I need really as knowing what he can do in law won't mean anything. And I can't afford to go to court.

I just wanted to find out if he is able to do what he threatens as CEO

OP posts:
StoneColdBitch · 29/06/2021 09:16

He is entitled to pay himself whatever salary he wants, if he's a company director. It can be tax-efficient to pay yourself only a small salary.

There are various ways to reduce tax and/or CMS liability, such as putting a lot of income into a pension, or using salary sacrifice schemes for things like a car.

If you feel he is deliberately evading maintenance and you take it far enough with the Child Maintenance Service, they might find in your favour - or they might not.

The process of complaining and appealing would likely be stressful and would probably increase the acrimony between you and your ex.

There's a risk he will quit work and live off a new partner, or his parents, or benefits.

Personally, if I were getting enough maintenance to meet the children's needs, I would accept it and not rock the boat. But I realise I'll get ripped apart for saying that here.

3peassuit · 29/06/2021 09:18

Is he avoiding tax as well? Could it be worth reporting him to HMRC?NRPs who do this are disgusting.

StoneColdBitch · 29/06/2021 09:19

Sorry, just saw that you said he is employed. If he owns the company he can pay himself how he likes. If he's an employee he can reduce his income by pensioning loads, salary sacrifice etc. The rest of my reply stands.

Menora · 29/06/2021 09:23

I sadly do agree. Something is better than nothing
And we all know he’s a scum bag

SugarAndSpiceIsNice · 29/06/2021 09:23

Well if he's threatening you with hiding his income, you could be equally nasty with threatening that since he's a big shot CEO, you'll put on twitter how measly he is with paying for his children with photos of his payment. Sometimes you've just got to be nasty with nasty people to give them the taste of their own medicine. He knows that you won't be nasty and while you're accepting his conditions to keep peace for the sake of the children, he's considering it his "victory" and thinking of you as a pushover.

Menora · 29/06/2021 09:24

@SugarAndSpiceIsNice

Well if he's threatening you with hiding his income, you could be equally nasty with threatening that since he's a big shot CEO, you'll put on twitter how measly he is with paying for his children with photos of his payment. Sometimes you've just got to be nasty with nasty people to give them the taste of their own medicine. He knows that you won't be nasty and while you're accepting his conditions to keep peace for the sake of the children, he's considering it his "victory" and thinking of you as a pushover.
This type of behaviour just feeds into these men, also it’s really not good for kids to have warring parents. I wouldn’t lower myself personally
Sparklfairy · 29/06/2021 09:30

@StoneColdBitch

Sorry, just saw that you said he is employed. If he owns the company he can pay himself how he likes. If he's an employee he can reduce his income by pensioning loads, salary sacrifice etc. The rest of my reply stands.
@StoneColdBitch does all of that ultimately mean he'll have less actual cash though? Some men threaten this but when push comes to shove and they realise they won't be able to flash the cash as much they back down...
StarryNight468 · 29/06/2021 09:33

He could pay himself dividends instead of a wage which would mean you'd get very little.

Youdiditanyway · 29/06/2021 09:35

What a truly horrible man. My friend contacted CMS once because her ex always messed her around with the payment date and amount. The person she spoke to warned her off going through CMS because she may get a lot less, apparently this is very common.

I can’t stand the fact men get away with this, it’s a common occurrence sadly.

StoneColdBitch · 29/06/2021 09:38

Yes, if he pensions the income he can't touch it until he's 55 or 57 (depending on his age) iirc. But if an NRP is already early 50s, and has other ways of paying the bills, like a new wife or wealthy parents, it can be quite an efficient way of putting off getting the money until after his kids are too old to need CMS. I know a mum who this happened to. I judged her ex a lot. As far as we could tell there wasn't much she could do about it.

JaceLancs · 29/06/2021 09:45

If you can manage do so - but keep records
ExDH was very similar - even gave up working for a while to stop paying
My DC are now adults they know he could have helped more financially even though we coped - more camping in U.K. than holidays abroad he could afford etc
They don’t have a lot of time or respect for him - whilst we are very close

Shamoo · 29/06/2021 10:37

Assuming he is employed by a normal company with a legitimate payroll system etc, he can take money out of his monthly pay as mentioned above (eg increase pension payments). He may perhaps also be able to salary sacrifice for a new car or similar, depending on his benefits package. But as far as I am aware any decision he makes like this will ultimately reduce his take home pay too. Some (like the pension) will lock it away long term. If he did the car option he could have a new car on top of his pay. But I don’t think he could hide money away AND have the cash, if that makes sense.

What a twat.

DynamoKev · 29/06/2021 10:46

@Dogscanteatonions

Mediation not a possibility and nothing court ordered.

It's not legal advice I need really as knowing what he can do in law won't mean anything. And I can't afford to go to court.

I just wanted to find out if he is able to do what he threatens as CEO

As others have mentioned, he can pay himself in dividends, share options, pension contributions and sacrifice salary for benefits including cars.

The CMS claim to be able to deal with these issues.

In my experience they are worse than useless.

Sorry.

I wish there was more impetus to dealing with this sort of thing.

vivainsomnia · 29/06/2021 10:49

How much does he pay now?

TheWeeDonkey · 29/06/2021 11:14

The ridiculous thing is he thinks its you hes hurting but really its his children who will suffer, His children who will grow up not wanting to know him. Ultimately his loss.

What a scumbag, sorry you have to deal with him.

Collaborate · 29/06/2021 11:22

I just wanted to pop on here (as a divorce solicitor) to correct some misconceptions.

Whilst CMS will initially look at his PAYE income you can very swiftly get them to look at his dividend income. They can also look at how he diverts his income to taxable benefits in kind (if that's what he ends up doing).

If he's paying so little I'd call his bluff and go ahead and involve them.

DynamoKev · 29/06/2021 11:25

@Collaborate

I just wanted to pop on here (as a divorce solicitor) to correct some misconceptions.

Whilst CMS will initially look at his PAYE income you can very swiftly get them to look at his dividend income. They can also look at how he diverts his income to taxable benefits in kind (if that's what he ends up doing).

If he's paying so little I'd call his bluff and go ahead and involve them.

Have you had experience of the CMS actually doing anything useful in such cases?