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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Avoiding child maintenance

54 replies

Dogscanteatonions · 29/06/2021 07:49

Exh is now CEO of a company, he's not paid the right level of CM for over a year but I let it go for an easy life as he's not exactly easy to deal with.

I've suggested we go via the child maintenance service but he says he can change the way he gets paid (basically take home less and instead get other benefits)

The implication is if I don't agree a sum privately (which I guarantee won't be what he should be paying) and go through the CMS he will arrange his salary in a way to avoid paying as much.

So wondering if anyone has any idea if he can do this? He has a history of thisb sorry if thing when owning his own businesses but he's employed now

OP posts:
PumpkinKlNG · 29/06/2021 11:33

I would just come to an agreement with him personally, child maintenance weren’t helpful for me and didn’t care that my ex wasn’t paying for 3 years.

Bibidy · 29/06/2021 11:40

Tbh I would involve them, at least then you are guaranteed to get something. He sounds like he could potentially stop paying at any point otherwise.

HeyDemonsItsYaGirl · 29/06/2021 11:50

Have you had experience of the CMS actually doing anything useful in such cases?

Quite. They have the ABILITY to do what Collaborate describes, and they have the powers to severely punish NRPs who don't pay what they should. But they don't actually use these powers.

Original poster
Dogscanteatonions · 29/06/2021 12:10

Agreed. It's all very well knowing what can be done and what should be done but whether it will be done is another matter entirely.

OP posts:
Menora · 29/06/2021 12:15

At least knowing what you get now is stable and you know it’s coming in, you can work with something you know is coming.

One lesson I learnt was work hard not to rely on that money because it could be taken away again (job loss, health issue) so I tried not to factor it into any of our living expenses - and it’s the reason it’s not means tested. I upped my hours/studied so that it was extra income but not part of my income.

Fuckitfuckit · 29/06/2021 12:51

Honestly it's disgusting on his part, but in your position I didn't see it as worthwhile the shit.

DDs father has paid £170 total towards her upbringing. She is almost 14 years of age.
I got to a point where I stopped dealing with the stress and fighting.

He will have to make the excuses when DD I'd offer if she decides to see him. Of course, he will say he never wanted to bankroll me. Of course that'll be his excuse.

I can say, hand on heart, I've given DD pretty much everything she has, and he has had no involvement in it, because he didn't want any.

FrankieDettol · 29/06/2021 13:12

I get nothing and I have not pushed for it in years as my ex is abusive and frankly I'd rather cope without his cash. But I hope you get some good advice on here OP.

Collaborate · 29/06/2021 13:33

Have you had experience of the CMS actually doing anything useful in such cases?

Well, yes. It involves a bit of effort and perhaps an appeal but the law is quite clear about these things.

HeyDemonsItsYaGirl · 29/06/2021 13:39

Can you elaborate on the "bit of effort" Collaborate? There are many thousand of women who'd love to know how they get the CMS to do anything useful.

3scape · 29/06/2021 13:39

CMS don't exactly go in all guns blazing, they advise so many to essentially suck it up and not rock the boat if they are getting 'something'.

The system doesn't work at all for the children of these absentee parents who have no moral compass.

forinborin · 29/06/2021 13:40

@Collaborate

Have you had experience of the CMS actually doing anything useful in such cases?

Well, yes. It involves a bit of effort and perhaps an appeal but the law is quite clear about these things.

And after the appeal it stayed at the awarded amount, not overturned to nil in a couple of weeks as the father says he has an unforeseen variation in income and won't be earning anything anymore for the rest of his life? It is good that things are changing though, I found them completely useless... in my experience, even a hard court order as to maintenance is good only for 12 months, then it reverts back to the original position.
SMabbutt · 29/06/2021 13:53

Theoretically you can ask for a variation if he tries to hide income www.gov.uk/how-child-maintenance-is-worked-out

How well this would work in practice I don't know.

Doghead · 29/06/2021 13:58

My ex gave up work to avoid paying CM. He then worked cash in hand for years whilst claiming benefits I reported to the CSA, to the Benefits Agency and the Inland Revenue but none of them gave a hoot. Apparently he had 'a right to be believed' .

We got the odd £5 a week out of his benefits. Disgusting vile man.

Our son is an adult now. Highly educated and in a great profession. I'm married to a lovely man and we have a wonderful life together. The bike ex? Well, he's morbidly overweight, toothless, still living on benefits in a manky bedsit, single and alone. None of his children bother with him (he treated all of his exes the way he treated me).

I know it's annoying right now, but karma will take care of what it needs to.

Doghead · 29/06/2021 13:59

*vile ex......not bike. Haha.

DynamoKev · 29/06/2021 14:06

@SMabbutt

Theoretically you can ask for a variation if he tries to hide income www.gov.uk/how-child-maintenance-is-worked-out

How well this would work in practice I don't know.

I think for quite a few of us, it didn't (work in practice).
OldTinHat · 29/06/2021 14:09

This happened to me. Exh was a co director, he paid me peanuts so I raised a case with CMS. I explained he was a director and put his salary as nil but claimed dividends and they managed to ensure he paid the right amount by going to Companies House and getting the annual accounts.

JaceLancs · 29/06/2021 14:13

I was a lone parent in the days when maintenance was taken into account as part of means testing for benefits - even if father didn’t pay up my income was assessed on what he should have paid
So I was doubly screwed over - DWP would pursue you to hand over fathers details - at least current system assumes you may get no contribution
Yes I’m bitter!

grandmashotdoodlebugs · 29/06/2021 14:21

I've had three contradictory letters from CMS in one week.

They are currently in an appalling state of affairs.

I'd say go through them but wait a while as they are currently in a very bad way.

grandmashotdoodlebugs · 29/06/2021 14:21

And in in the year you wait, collect evidence of his income from companies house etc (another government agent in complete ruin currently!)

Zilla1 · 29/06/2021 14:44

It sounds like he would rather not vary his finances (salary to dividends or some more esoteric arrangement) as presumably these will have costs or risks or disadvantages. He might also have to ask his payroll or colleagues or clients (depending on whether he is a one person company) some of whom will realise why he is doing this. Call his bluff.
Save the correspondence for the future.

StoneColdBitch · 29/06/2021 21:19

@Collaborate

I just wanted to pop on here (as a divorce solicitor) to correct some misconceptions.

Whilst CMS will initially look at his PAYE income you can very swiftly get them to look at his dividend income. They can also look at how he diverts his income to taxable benefits in kind (if that's what he ends up doing).

If he's paying so little I'd call his bluff and go ahead and involve them.

Sorry - I didn't mean to propagate misconceptions. Thank you for clarifying. Should CMS have challenged the ex in my friend's case, for pensioning a large proportion of his income? As far as I know they didn't, but I realise that I might not have been told the full story...!
grandmashotdoodlebugs · 02/07/2021 09:43

Might be helpful

www.gingerbread.org.uk/information/child-maintenance/

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 02/07/2021 11:35

I feel really upset for you reading this. I dont understand why there isnt some kind of enforcement so that men who earn a lot but not directly through a salary or those that are wealthy eg through inheritance or a trust fund, are forced to pay. And I also don't understand why paying child maintenance is seen as 'giving away cash that's rightfully yours to the money grabbing ex' rather than 'fulfilling your legal and moral responsibilities towards your children and contributing to bringing them up'. Its just sickening that it's so common and socially acceptable.

However I don't think it's illegal and I am not sure there is much you can do about it. I'd be worried if I pushed him too hard he would pay less. So I wouldnt take him to court or go through CMS

To be honest I'd just try and play nice and appeal to his better nature. Though it doesnt sound like he has one.

You could always speak to a solicitor who specialises in family law for a second opinion

o8T8o · 02/07/2021 11:38

I would do whatever gives you the easiest life but keep a log of everything so that when they're older the children will know exactly what he was like as a parent

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 02/07/2021 11:40

Actually reading the responses above maybe it is worth doing. Especially if you could survive if he was successful in hiding his money. Does he have a new partner at all? I think this increases the risk, if it is a very small company and he has control over the finances, that for example he drops his own salary and pays the rest to her as a consultant or something