WFH, suddenly taken away, are we really just going back to the old way?

[80caloriesofbiscuitplease]

Today my (public sector) employer announced we were all expected to be back in the office, full time from a months time, with home working only to be used in emergencies.
I know that response to WFH has been mixed from other professionals and some employees have frankly been less productive from home. I would have been happy with one day per week from home as a compromise.
My argument is that there should be a consultation period where we could put forward our rationale for being able to maintain an aspect of home working. Also are we really going to go back to the old way, packed buses, packed trains, traffic, pollution, all for presentism?
I feel that we've seen another way, with happier employees, healthier employees and an improvement in the environment. I work in a grey concrete wasteland where I regularly sit at my desk all day without a break. At home I can open my doors, hear the birds, stroke my cat. My mental health has improved so much and that makes me a better employee. Today two of us were in the office and four were working from home. They really want to go back to six of us coming to work all day, every day to answer emails and input data which we could do from home?
I know I could look for another role but I like my job and I'm quite good at it. I don't want a role which is completely home based, but I feel saddened by the whole world going back to the way we lived before.
And yes I know some have worked out the house the whole way through. It's not a 'my life is harder' competition.

@Tealightsandd

From a customer and client perspective WFH has been terrible. Standards of service have significantly dropped.

But also the office based industries bring in billions and billions to the national economy. It's the same in other countries, and it's why the Bank of America has recommended people return to the office.

I have been working from home for the past 16 months. I don’t understand why you say things have slipped, every single target has been met & every job done in our team just as well as if we’d all been in the office every day. I really don’t want to go back to wasting 10 hours a week & £90 a month commuting to & from the office when it’s been shown for many of us it’s totally unnecessary.

Harder to recruit from further afield for hybrid working. Can't see many commuting in from Newcastle to scan a load of drug charts.

DutifulDD12
Be careful what you wish for

My old job was off shored to a non EU country to a much cheaper work force, pre covid

Happened to my friend too. Worked in High Street Bank. All her work sent to India.

I must be the only person in the world who absolutely hated working from home! I practically skipped back to the office!

@Tealightsandd

No it didn't happen before the pandemic. Not like that.

Because they're WFH, they can't just hand the phone to the manager or a more experienced colleague, when they don't know the answer to a query.

So they have to try to call that person to ask them what to tell me (the client or customer).

They take ages to get hold of the person who should be available albeit at home and not an office. But they're not.

So it ends up with customers and clients on hold for anything up to an hour, just to be told someone will call them back. Who never does, or will do one week later when you've already gone elsewhere.

Absolute tosh. Well set up call centres have exactly the same facility to transfer calls, share calls etc. as they do in the office.

Modern call centres have cloud based software and VoIP phone lines all of which can happen anywhere and doesn’t require people to be sat in the same room.

I worked for a public sector organisation until May, and whilst it’s true that there was some disruption to customers whilst schools were closed, under normal circumstances staff aren’t allowed to be caring for children and working, and if excessive noise is heard on the background of calls it would be (and has been) a performance issue.

What customers don’t know is that 1/3 of our call centre staff worked from home or from very small community offices away from the main contact centre pre-pandemic because we ran out of desks in about 2018 and our budget has been cut so savagely that we couldn’t afford any more office space so WFH was a cheaper option.

Tealightsandd

We'll see a stark increase in inequality with WFH.

So somebody comes from a deprived background or has escaped domestic abuse or experienced ill health or had caring responsibilities limiting their ability to earn. They're ready to apply for/return to work. Talented, skilled, lots to offer employers. Yet they can't apply for the job. Why? Because they can't afford a suitable WFH environment.

They can't try to move to a better home unless and until they're in the job. And even then, many entry and even intermediate level jobs won't pay enough to immediately fund a move. Plus family commitments etc.

And many of those people can't apply for a job that's too far away or out of the home for long periods.

They can't afford to live near busy business centres, because its too expensive.

Maybe working from home wod mean they can afford, somewhere better further away from the expensive house prices.

Or maybe they can set up their current home, because all those things don't equal 'must work out of the house'

It may even help those people because they have no commute time. Or only commute on certain days.

I am a DV survivor, with ptsd. That moved 30 mins away from the expensive houses to afford one. In a small 3 bed house and have my work space in my room. It's not spacious or grand. It does the job. And I purposely applied for flexible roles, to suit around my autistic son and older daughter.

I worked like that before the pandemic.

Again, there's no basis that flexible working doesn't help all people I the situafion you describe. If can help many. It won't help all, but many.

@myleghurts

DutifulDD12 Be careful what you wish for

My old job was off shored to a non EU country to a much cheaper work force, pre covid

Happened to my friend too. Worked in High Street Bank. All her work sent to India.

That's already been covered. I am sorry about your job.

But WFH isn't the sole reason your job was off shored and someone in your hierarchy already had that planned. Theres alot that goes into that decision. The pandemic just gave them a better excuse because now they can say 'we had to do something and the pandemic forced our hand'.

Bank roles, especially telephone roles have always had a high risk of this. Pandemic or not.

@Tealightsandd

as they will only find people who want full time office work.

Lots and lots and lots of people might not want full time office work, but only a minority can afford not to. Homes suitable for WFH are the preserve of a privileged few.

Also, with the country in massive debt, our battered economy really could do without losing the billions that it gets from the office based industries.

And I really can't state enough how shit WFH has been for customers and clients.

Totally agree with this. In over 40 years at work I've never known such poor customer service as has been experienced in some companies over the past year or so. Luckily some companies have their act together, but many don't. 🙄Those companies risk either going out of business or the business being done elsewhere overseas, but we desperately need the money in this country to pay down the national debt. It's time to get our country's priorities right really.

I have no sympathy OP.

I’m public sector and we’re being given a choice of hybrid working in consultation with our team leaders and teams , seeing how it works till January and possibly having a more permanent plan from then . We’ve been working from home since last year with a small amount of people being allowed to go back in for a few days a week for operational or wellbeing reasons . Before covid we had a degree of hot desking as our office space and car parking was limited

Tbh people working in a certain high street bank starting with B…. Please get back into work as no one can open a bank account as apparently (when we went in to the branch to open a new account) everyone that fan open accounts are still working from home so no opening of accounts as it’s not safe to send customers info to people’s houses…. Bloody ridiculous

It's brilliant you got away, and I'm sorry for what you've been through.

Unfortunately it's not the same for others. I know of someone who left DV. There's no way she could've worked from home where she was living. She was left penniless from years of abuse. Was given a tiny studio HMO. Noisy, cramped. Luckily in her case a family member (my friend) found out and gave her a place to stay. Many won't have the same option.

I agree there should be some flexibility with more WFH options (where possible for the role) for the disabled and those with caring responsibilities. More balance too, so maybe 1/2 days WFH. But full-time permanent WFH for the majority would be a big mistake for individuals and for society as a whole.

Returning to DV. Services have already been cut to the bone. The office based industry brings in billions to the national economy. Which funds public services - including those for DV.

@Loubiemoo what do you do for a job?

And with the customer service. It's definitely because of WFH.

The person answering the phone can no longer just pass you on to their colleague or manager. Nor can they put you on hold for a few minutes to quickly check info with the colleague/manager.

Everything takes longer.

@Tealightsandd

It's brilliant you got away, and I'm sorry for what you've been through.

Unfortunately it's not the same for others. I know of someone who left DV. There's no way she could've worked from home where she was living. She was left penniless from years of abuse. Was given a tiny studio HMO. Noisy, cramped. Luckily in her case a family member (my friend) found out and gave her a place to stay. Many won't have the same option.

I agree there should be some flexibility with more WFH options (where possible for the role) for the disabled and those with caring responsibilities. More balance too, so maybe 1/2 days WFH. But full-time permanent WFH for the majority would be a big mistake for individuals and for society as a whole.

Returning to DV. Services have already been cut to the bone. The office based industry brings in billions to the national economy. Which funds public services - including those for DV.

Again, I didn't say it works for all people in the circumstances you provided.

I even put that at the end. But to pretend wfh excludes all those people, in those circumstances is just wrong.

I have never argued that wfh, is best. Or that it suits everyone. But, it does suit plenty. Or hybrid might suit them better.

Blankets statements that say things like 'DV survivors won't be able to xyz' passes me off. Because we are not one homogenous groups, where all things suit all. I know sever DC survivors who work in schools and it really suits them.

Its not flexible enough for me. BecauseAl out lives are different.

All our office phones have been removed in the past week and we have been asked to add an app to our laptops unless we’ve been issued with a work mobile ( usually only higher grades)

I work for a large international charity and we have major return to work projects encompassing wellbeing with a lot of staff consultation on the matter of returning to the office. The vast majority of staff consulted (90% I think) want a hybrid approach to returning to the office and I think that is what is going to be adopted (although we have basically been told we can do what we want - go back full-time right the way through to being home-based if our role lends itself to this, minus important meetings). My partner works for a Housing Association in central London and have been told that it's up to managers to decide what their teams do but there is no intention of returning to the office full time.

I really think that it depends on your employer but any good employer would be dynamic and embrace agile working and see the benefits it has brought to employees, mental health and the environment. This is obviously with the caveat that not all roles suit being home based but I think it's slightly backward to just say you're going back to the office full time.

And with the customer service. It's definitely because of WFH.

The person answering the phone can no longer just pass you on to their colleague or manager. Nor can they put you on hold for a few minutes to quickly check info with the colleague/manager.

Everything takes longer.

How many years experience do you have in call centres?

A portion of Staff already worked from home before. They have things like teams or some sort of IM, where they can type a question and many people will be available to answer it.

Most call centres train their staff to NOT transfer calls straight to managers and out them in queues. More often than not the queue is answered by someone who isn't really a manager, but has a certain title so you think they are. Like 'customer complaint manager'. Probably not a manager. I had that job for a while.

And I have seen many many team managers just point blank refuse to take calls. All before the pandemic.

Your employer will lose employees, and find it hard to recruit from a wide pool of talent

I'd love a change of career into a relatively safe office environment and I wouldn't whine about not being allowed to work from home. I'm in the queue if that poster decides going back to work is a deal breaker!

My employer is not encouraging returning to the office. I have been back there full time since January as my health conditions made it impossible for me to work from home safely and I don’t have room at home for all my specialised office equipment.
I am in a building that used to accommodate 450 people and there is now 50 ish in. Only half of those are working permanently in the office and the others are different people popping in and out to do the odd thing they can’t do at home.
We all completed a survey and less than 10% of the office based staff wanted to work in the office everyday. 56% wanted a mixture of home and office. 29% wanted to wfh full time. The remainder were don’t know.
It looks like no one other than those of us already there will be doing full time until at least November.
They will then offer hot desking and a desk will have to be booked on a first come first served basis.

I'm not talking just call centres Maya

@Tealightsandd

I'm not talking just call centres Maya

So what other businesses do you contact by phone, that only has one person there and has no IM contact with anyone else or no access to support. Or that usually puts you straight through to a manager. That always has a manager available, at all times, to speak to a customer? Or always has colleagues that aren't busy and available to answer questions.

And with regards suitable environment suitable for WFH. That most definitely is a privilege available only to a minority.

Vast numbers of people - potentially talented workers - will be excluded from opportunities if WFH stays.

Agree to with a PP. How shit for young people. Starting out in the world of work...stuck all day in their childhood bedroom or a crappy room in a houseshare.

WFH won't help the environment when train and bus companies can't afford to keep running, due to lost passengers revenue. And then everyone has to drive everywhere instead.

It's also going to be devastating to so many little businesses dependant on the office based economy. All those lost livelihoods.

Lost too will be the hundreds of billions that the office based economy brings to the national economy.

Austerity will seem like spend, spend, spend. The cuts will have to go deep

So, again for the wilfully uncomprehending:

Nobody, at any point, has suggested that all office workers should stay at home every day, all the time, forever.

Most people who work in offices never speak to customers. Your crappy customer service experience has nothing to do with their jobs.

People working from home still spend money. They still eat lunch and drink coffee. They just do it in their local area rather than a city centre. Or, about 80% of the time, not instead of a city centre but instead of a shit out of town business park where there’s nowhere to buy lunch anyway.

Quite a lot of people already worked from home on an occasional or regular basis before the pandemic, quite effectively. Why their employers would now decide to change a policy that has worked perfectly well for years has not realised been explained.

Most companies large enough to have dedicated call centres were already split across multiple office locations, with multiple data centres in even more locations. The vast majority of these transferred data between these locations over the internet. There were already lots of laws, regulations and standards dictating how customer data is handled. Your name and address being “off-site” is not a new thing.