WFH, suddenly taken away, are we really just going back to the old way?

[80caloriesofbiscuitplease]

Today my (public sector) employer announced we were all expected to be back in the office, full time from a months time, with home working only to be used in emergencies.
I know that response to WFH has been mixed from other professionals and some employees have frankly been less productive from home. I would have been happy with one day per week from home as a compromise.
My argument is that there should be a consultation period where we could put forward our rationale for being able to maintain an aspect of home working. Also are we really going to go back to the old way, packed buses, packed trains, traffic, pollution, all for presentism?
I feel that we've seen another way, with happier employees, healthier employees and an improvement in the environment. I work in a grey concrete wasteland where I regularly sit at my desk all day without a break. At home I can open my doors, hear the birds, stroke my cat. My mental health has improved so much and that makes me a better employee. Today two of us were in the office and four were working from home. They really want to go back to six of us coming to work all day, every day to answer emails and input data which we could do from home?
I know I could look for another role but I like my job and I'm quite good at it. I don't want a role which is completely home based, but I feel saddened by the whole world going back to the way we lived before.
And yes I know some have worked out the house the whole way through. It's not a 'my life is harder' competition.

I’m in an unusual position is that I was offered WFH in about December 2019 and turned it down. Despite having a large house I didn’t think I had a suitable workspace.

Well, after working from home I won’t go back. My team is spread from Cardiff to Glasgow via Heathrow, Ashford in Kent and the Midlands. A lot of what we do is very confidential and continuously using meeting rooms for calls was inconvenient.

I now have a suitable work space and I know i won’t have to go back (my boss has been WFH since summer 2019 which was why she offered it to me)

I'm the opposite. I hate working from home, am far less productive, I'm lonely and miserable. I don't like where I live (lifeless suburb) or my house. In a couple of years I will lose my workroom as it will need to convert to a kids bedroom.

i am desperate to go back to the life-giving energy of working in the city and being around other humans at work. Yet my employer is getting rid of the office. I'm utterly gutted. Have been holding on by my fingernails waiting to go back and now find we aren't.

Fortunate to have worked from home in terms of being more protected from getting Covid, especially in the early days.

But the poster specifically talked about enjoyment & after all the more who wfh the more those who couldn't were protected.

@Mayaspecialist

I am not convinced the economy will lose on billions.

I think people will spend that money elsewhere. I know so many people who are better off wfh, but have spent that money. But they have spent it using more locall businesses. Not the Costa on the way into work.

There will be a reduction in spend on public transport and petrol. But i think it will get spent elsewhere.

And aren't we meant to be trying to reduce petrol/ diesel use? The public transport here is rubbish so not many use it anyway.

I agree, when I work in the office I take a sandwich and make my own drinks. When I work from home I pop to our local town, sit in a Costa for lunch and coffee, grab a bit of shopping (mostly things I wouldn't buy at all if I was at work). I would say I'm spending more locally on the last 18 months than I have in the 44 years prior to the pandemic

I also see queues at Costa, and have done throughout the pandemic and don't believe they've been hit to hard.
Many retailers have announced they took more money than predicted due to their online side of the business booming. Again, the economy wasn't as affected as it could have been.

Once these other businesses that are still closed can reopen the economy will pick up more.

People will still spend (commuters will still stop at those coffee shops, WFH will still shop local) the money will go back into the big pot

I agree @CastawayQueen. People are very privileged to be able to say ‘I only want to wfh’.

So many things that need to be there to make it a worth whole experience. Space in the house, experience, not a new job/career, not living on your own, getting in really well with your spouse so you are happy to be together 24/7, etc etc….
I’m finding that in RL, the wfh crew is much smaller than MN would let you think.

I still think that there are this to learn from these last 18 months. One of them being that we CAN make a lot of jobs work when people are wfh (or part time wfh). That companies can be more flexible than they said they could etc…
But I don’t think the entitlement, like the one of @80caloriesofbiscuitplease, is ok.

The employer pays your wages. If they want you in the office thats it. Or find another job. I don't think the long term effects of working from home will be all positive.

Never know why in these discussions it's so often presented as an either/or. I've been mixing WFH and being office based for severals years, as have most of my direct colleagues. Those who prefer to come in to the office every day do so, while those who prefer to WFH only come in when they have meetings. I tend to go to the office 2-4 days/week, and WFH the other days. It's great, enough days in the office to be sociable, chat to colleagues, but without having to commute every day.

Hmm @HalzTangz, I think that the numbers from the Bank of England show that the economy has been quite badly hit my the pandemic.
I think you are naive there.

@checkingusernamezzzz

In my experience the public sector workers 'WFH' are having a right jolly. The private sector ones are still working hard... but you try speaking to someone from the council. Covid is a constant excuse. If public sector workers can't work normally from home, get them back to the office.

Yes the private sector are so much “better”

Riiiiiiiight

Or, be a bit more grown up about it and appreciate that making sweeping generalisations is a little lazy.

To be fair I do think they've given you a months notice which is not just being sprung on you.

WFH is also shit if you are a new employee, like me. My manager has refused to help me to develop in ways I need to as 'its too hard remotely'. He is also one of those managers I need to manage to get him to do his job as a people manager and that is nigh on impossible working remotely. WFH has allowed him to completely ignore the ' people management/ developmeent' side of his job that he clearly hates.

these threads always bring some really bitter people out of the woodwork, really upset that anyone has worked from home and moaning about customer service, as if we're all working in customer service.

We're going back to 3 days in the office, 2 WFH. I'd hoped for 2 in the office, 3 WFH as that suits my role quite a lot more - but they're trying to be fair to everyone at the moment. I'm looking at making a flexible working request. I've also applied for new jobs and have been offered one, and have second interviews for three more plus waiting to hear about another one I had yesterday. I've been very upfront that I want to work from home for most of the time (and have also asked for more money). The job offer I have is 4 days WFH and a £10k pay rise. I actually would prefer to stay in the job I have, and will be requested the WFH terms I'd prefer, on the same salary I'm on now. I'm at a very senior level with a high degree of expertise, but I'd definitely been undervaluing that.

This situation has made me realise the value of my time and that's being reflected in the jobs I'm being offered. If you've got a niche expertise, then know you do genuinely have some power in this situation.

OP YANBU, there are some seriously grumpy sods on this thread who seem desperate for everyone to be as miserable as they are! And who have no imagination as to how things can work differently from the past!

All this nonsense about “it was only going to be temporary!” Yes, that was the case when everyone thought working from home would only last a few weeks, but when whole offices/companies have managed now for 15 months, it’s clear that there can be another way for the future. Any employer worth their sat will see this. It’s a failure of leadership to go straight back to how things were before with no flexibility.

I feel so lucky with my employer - they’ve done regular surveys of all staff throughout the pandemic to check the pulse of the organisation, identified issues that were arising and have come up with a plan to suit as many people as possible (so allowing a very flexible set up, where people can work from home or office as much as they like unless there’s a specific event they have to be in the office for). This way, people who don’t have the space or quiet they need at home can come in as much as they like and those who are better at working from home can continue to do so c80% of the time. Our work is all logged so they can check productivity and we’ve actually had our best ever year this year, so clearly WFH doesn’t have to be a disaster for productivity levels.

I despair of the people who think everyone should just put up and shut up at work - it’s not a race to the bottom and everyone deserves to be happy in their workplace, not to mention the discrimination against working mums and people with disabilities when forcing everyone in full time!

@NotAllTheOnesWhoWanderAreLost

I agree *@CastawayQueen*. People are very privileged to be able to say ‘I only want to wfh’.

So many things that need to be there to make it a worth whole experience. Space in the house, experience, not a new job/career, not living on your own, getting in really well with your spouse so you are happy to be together 24/7, etc etc….
I’m finding that in RL, the wfh crew is much smaller than MN would let you think.

I still think that there are this to learn from these last 18 months. One of them being that we CAN make a lot of jobs work when people are wfh (or part time wfh). That companies can be more flexible than they said they could etc…
But I don’t think the entitlement, like the one of @80caloriesofbiscuitplease, is ok.

You’re right as pp have mentioned as well MN is probably a very small subset. I work for a company that has had flexible working even before the pandemic - most of our remote contractors jumped at the chance to be in the office. We didn’t have a culture of preseentism either as on any given day several people would be at home so I guess most people prefer a mix as well.

I think the businesses that have poor service during the pandemic weren't adequately set up for these roles to WFH. British gas springs to mind frame who have been very poor, also local authorities.
But I have found some businesses that were as easy to resolve a query from WFH as they were from working in the office. The latter were businesses that just covid as an excuse at the start of their telephone calls.

@Tealightsandd

as they will only find people who want full time office work.

Lots and lots and lots of people might not want full time office work, but only a minority can afford not to. Homes suitable for WFH are the preserve of a privileged few.

Also, with the country in massive debt, our battered economy really could do without losing the billions that it gets from the office based industries.

And I really can't state enough how shit WFH has been for customers and clients.

And I really can't state enough how shit WFH has been for customers and clients

In YOUR experience maybe. Our clients are v happy and we have had one of the most profitable periods since the firm was founded some 30 years ago. We will continue to work in a hybrid format as WFH has been so successful.

Decent managers and employers can make sure younger staff members don't miss out.

The world has changed. Its not going, to be exactly the same after.

Its been quite well documented that a more flexible approach to working can be beneficial and that working in offices is often bad for people's health.

Alot of employers have the chance to make positive changes. Some will, some won't be able to because of their business and some won't.

People want life like it was in January 2020. Its never going to be exactly like that.

[quote UndomesticHousewife]@LST It's about people's attitude. If an employer wants their staff to go back to the office then that's what happens as employees are paid to do what the employer wants.
If you don't like what an employer wants you to do then find another job. [/quote]
Yes but surely people do have an argument if they are still working well and have managed to WFH for the past year and a half.

@Alaimo

Never know why in these discussions it's so often presented as an either/or. I've been mixing WFH and being office based for severals years, as have most of my direct colleagues. Those who prefer to come in to the office every day do so, while those who prefer to WFH only come in when they have meetings. I tend to go to the office 2-4 days/week, and WFH the other days. It's great, enough days in the office to be sociable, chat to colleagues, but without having to commute every day.

Completely agree, it doesn’t have to be one or the other. I’ve said to my team they need to come in once a month for a team meeting but other than that they can choose how they work. I have some who want to WFH fully except for that meeting, some like me who’ll go in 1 or 2 days a week to do the work that’s better done face to face, and some who will prefer to go in every day. Different people work best in different ways so as long as the role allows, hybrid working makes sense to me. We wouldn’t be ordering people back to the office, we’d lose great talent and with such an inflexible attitude we’d struggle to recruit more in our sector.

CastawayQueen yes, you make a lot of fair points, and even companies that were designed from the ground-up as fully remote understand the value of being physically together sometimes, especially for training and mentorship so yes, at some points hybrid can be great.

I also agree that shifting the cost of working infrastructure to employees is dodgy.

The need to address nuances of remote work still doesn't necessarily make a great case for traditional long hours + commutes to office enclaves.

Never know why in these discussions it's so often presented as an either/or. I've been mixing WFH and being office based for severals years, as have most of my direct colleagues

I've worked from home at least some of the time since 2008 and ad hoc before that. I totally agree with you, I've had colleagues working full tine in the office, full time at home and various permutations of both the whole time.

Also the idea that remote working always has to = working at home. I've banged on about this for months but outside covid times, working from home doesn't have to mean working from home because there is a growing industry in providing co-working spaces. My local council has a business centre, the Village Hotel chain has them, and there are loads of others. They are not necessarily cheap to use, but if you save on the commute, it may be cost effective and much better than using your ironing board in the kitchen.

You’ve seen the light! It’s not for everyone but for some, it’s a game changer to not work in the 9 -5 office, commute, rat race.
Dh has worked from home full time for ten years and has huge amount of flexibility
I gave up office work three years ago. We could not go back.

Vote with your feet, find something that works for you. I think there will be a reshuffle really, people leaving because they have to go back to offices and others leaving because they aren’t able to.
Time to job hunt?

I saw an article yesterday about a couple of London-based law firms publishing their flexible working policies.

I can't remember what one of them said but the other said that they will expect most staff to be in the office 3 days a week and trainee/junior solicitors will be in the office 4 days a week.

@Conkergame

OP YANBU, there are some seriously grumpy sods on this thread who seem desperate for everyone to be as miserable as they are! And who have no imagination as to how things can work differently from the past!

All this nonsense about “it was only going to be temporary!” Yes, that was the case when everyone thought working from home would only last a few weeks, but when whole offices/companies have managed now for 15 months, it’s clear that there can be another way for the future. Any employer worth their sat will see this. It’s a failure of leadership to go straight back to how things were before with no flexibility.

I feel so lucky with my employer - they’ve done regular surveys of all staff throughout the pandemic to check the pulse of the organisation, identified issues that were arising and have come up with a plan to suit as many people as possible (so allowing a very flexible set up, where people can work from home or office as much as they like unless there’s a specific event they have to be in the office for). This way, people who don’t have the space or quiet they need at home can come in as much as they like and those who are better at working from home can continue to do so c80% of the time. Our work is all logged so they can check productivity and we’ve actually had our best ever year this year, so clearly WFH doesn’t have to be a disaster for productivity levels.

I despair of the people who think everyone should just put up and shut up at work - it’s not a race to the bottom and everyone deserves to be happy in their workplace, not to mention the discrimination against working mums and people with disabilities when forcing everyone in full time!

This ^

Especially this 'there are some seriously grumpy sods on this thread who seem desperate for everyone to be as miserable as they are!'

and this 'I despair of the people who think everyone should just put up and shut up at work - it’s not a race to the bottom and everyone deserves to be happy in their workplace'.

@Alaimo

Never know why in these discussions it's so often presented as an either/or. I've been mixing WFH and being office based for severals years, as have most of my direct colleagues. Those who prefer to come in to the office every day do so, while those who prefer to WFH only come in when they have meetings. I tend to go to the office 2-4 days/week, and WFH the other days. It's great, enough days in the office to be sociable, chat to colleagues, but without having to commute every day.

This. Why can't we mix and match, so people can choose where they are the most productive?

WFH does not have to be 5 days a week. Even a day or two can be good to recharge and get heads down work done for those who don't thrive in a loud and busy office.