To be furious about covid restrictions for maternity scans/birth?

[SaraKatie]

I'll preface this by saying I'm not from the UK, I'm Irish, and we have a horrific track record on women's health issues (from the Magdalene laundries right up to our recent cervical check horror). But I am absolutely outraged by our "visitor" restrictions for maternity appointments, ACTUAL BIRTHS, and postnatal hospital stays. Partners are not visitors.

I gave birth to my first child in January 2020, so I'm lucky as it was pre-covid. She hasn't had a single check-up performed by her community nurse since March 2020, and has had important and time-sensitive medical appointments cancelled, but that's a whole other topic. However, during my maternity leave I met loads of mums who did give birth during the pandemic and heard all sorts of horror stories first-hand. Giving birth alone because their partners were only allowed in when they were in active labour, which was too late. Having their cervix checked multiple times when they didn't want it, just because they were so desperate to have their partners be let in. Being left alone for days on a ward after a c-section with no help, because the nurses were swept off their feet and their partners were not allowed in. I've also met multiple women who attended scans alone to find out they had miscarried, and who then had to tell their partners this devastating news. It's barbaric.

We are opening up. I can get my hair done. I can go and clothes shop. But we still can't have partners with us for our scans. I had an early miscarriage last month. I'm now pregnant again and booking in for an early pregnancy scan. I'm extremely nervous about it. My husband is not allowed attend with me.

Why can't they do a rapid covid test before the scans so partners can attend? They do them at a cosmetic clinic several of my friends attend for botox. Swab in the carpark. 20 minutes later they have a result. Partners could stay a metre away from the clinician doing the scans. They could wear masks. Hell, they could wear full PPE. They want to be at their children's scans just as much as the pregnant women want them there.

It just feels like Ireland doesn't give a shit about women once again.

@SaraKatie I went through pregnancy and most of labour alone. And postnatal care in the hospital was HORRIFIC - to the point that I left with my baby after he’d had all his checks and I knew he was perfectly healthy.

But I’d do it all again 100000x over if it meant people could have been with loved ones that were dying instead

Ireland doesn't care about women. YANBU.

I'm in England and was originally told that my husband couldn't attend the scan with me. We booked a private scan a couple of weeks in advance which we could attend together, (a) so my husband could see our child with me for the first time and (b) so that we could be together if anything was wrong. Fortunately, everything was fine and it was a lovely experience.

Later we were told that I had been misinformed and partners could attend the NHS scan, as policy had changed I suggested that the hospital might want to change the letter it sent out to expectant mothers...

Could a private scan be an option for you, OP? Schedule it close to your official appt and choose a reputable clinic which will help you if there's bad news.

Hopefully the rules on birth will have relaxed by the time you give birth.

@MindyStClaire

I had a baby and lost a parent during the pandemic. Hospitals aren't pubs or hairdressers, they need to have the strictest restrictions because of the high proportion of vulnerable people and the need to keep staff healthy so services can continue to operate. The restrictions were far more difficult to bear when my parent was dying but I never felt at any stage with either that there wasn't a logical reason for everything that was asked of us.

I agree. I've given birth twice in Ireland during the pandemic. First to our sleeping angel, DH wasn't with me for some of the bad news scans but the staff were absolutely amazing, and he was there when our son was stillborn. In the lead up to that when I was waiting in hospital I was glad they were so strict, I had a serious infection and thanks to staff being safe they were able to take exceptional care of me, not only the fact that every team member who I had met throughout his pregnancy visited me to see how I was, but also they ultimately saved my life.

When I fell pregnant again I was given extra reassurance appointments with again exceptional care and compassion. I always knew DH was just outside (though with work and older kids he wasn't able to come in even though they offered). Appointments were peaceful and quiet in the waiting areas. This alone really helped. I was admitted antenatally which was stress free thanks to quiet wards.

My hospital in Dublin, all public care, went above and beyond. The home visits from the midwives and then the public health nurse and free lactation consultant after this birth haven't been reduced.

OP I'm so sorry you've had a bad experience, it really shouldn't be that way for anyone. I'm from the UK and I've found specialist women's care and maternity care here in Ireland to be of a much better quality and I do hope the care you recieve in the future reflects this.

I am pregnant too and really dreading what the restrictions might be by the time I give birth in December. So far my husband has been allowed to attend my NT scan, and will be allowed to come to the anomaly scan. He can't attend the growth scans later in my pregnancy though (I have GD).

I'm aware that this is a lot more than other couples had earlier in the pandemic, but I worry about how little he might get to be around in labour/ post-partum. I know this isn't unique to maternity, but it feels utterly backwards that I could go to a football match with thousands of other people before they are able to relax hospital visitation - even with lateral flow testing and PPE.

It is horrific. I gave birth in September, spent time in labour alone, stressing about getting to 4cm and had an emergency caesarean that went wrong and I couldn't physically move from bed for 5 days to care for my daughter. I was left sobbing time and time again because no one would come to change her nappy or help me feed her. I'd sometimes wait an hour of buzzing.

What I really didn't understand was that when I had DD in August 2020, visiting was capped at 2 hours a day, then come January (middle of a wave) our trust increased visiting hours to 6 per day, and also started allowing partners to scans and all of labour. There seems to be zero logic behind these decisions, it surely can't relate to case numbers as they were higher in January than August. I would find it easier to accept the restrictions if they made sense.

@InpatientGardener

What I really didn't understand was that when I had DD in August 2020, visiting was capped at 2 hours a day, then come January (middle of a wave) our trust increased visiting hours to 6 per day, and also started allowing partners to scans and all of labour. There seems to be zero logic behind these decisions, it surely can't relate to case numbers as they were higher in January than August. I would find it easier to accept the restrictions if they made sense.

Are you UK based? Perhaps your trust was fully vaccinated by then? Or perhaps they had more data available on which to base decisions? Or had had time to put in increased safety procedures?

Well that’s Ireland for you. I left 5 years ago and I’ll never return.

Best thing I ever did!

What people don’t seem to have clocked on this thread is that hospital restrictions have been eased significantly in Ireland, on advice of our emergency health body.

The maternity hospitals are (mostly) not following this public health advice and are doing their own thing. Despite the government asking them on numerous occasions to allow partners in.

"The quick tests you mention (the ones the Botox clinic are using) are not reliable. They give a very high rate of false negatives - ie people testing negative when they should test positive - especially in asymptomatic people. So that's why the hospitals aren't using them. "

Yet schools are relying on these and the NHS is spending £millions supplying them. The interviews outside the Wales game had fans explaining how they had to go through at least four countries to get to the game to avoid any restrictions. We've conveniently put lots of countries on the green list. People who have Covid aren't filling our hospitals. Only the very elderly frail are now dying. Our treatment pathways have got so much better. Put that with the hospital restrictions not being in the guidance and they can't be justified.

I had a baby in July 2020 and my partner wasn't able to come to any of my many many scans so wasn't there when I was told that he wasn't growing and that my c section was being brought forward however that wasn't to bad because at least he was with me for the birth.
However he had to leave a few hours after to look after our eldest and I didn't see him again for a month as our baby was very ill and needed surgery. He wasn't even able to see our son before the operation.
This has completely destroyed what little positive mental health I had after a previous premature baby, 3 miscarriages and 3 life threatening illnesses in the past 5 years. No one cared that I was having a mental breakdown until I got to the specialist hospital. My dh still couldn't visit but they allowed me to sleep and took care of my baby for me, which was a go's send

I have birth in June 2020. Went into triage with my perfect baby and textbook pregnancy to be told my baby was dead. I was alone.
After that, the hospital chucked the rules out the window. My mum and DH were with me when DS was born and my dad was allowed in for a cuddle in the morning.
I was in intensive care by this point as I was catastrophically ill. The Covid ward next door was empty, I'm told, so the hospital felt it would have been unnecessarily cruel to stop my family being with me and DS.
Thank god.

It's cruel on both parents.i don't see it as singling women out as men are treated equally bad. I know of men who have died alone, their partners unable to visit. It's people in general who are treated appallingly imo.

It is awful that partners are still being restricted. YANBU at all.

It isn’t just Ireland, it’s the same in the UK as well. I had my baby in July 2020 and was incredibly fortunate my ‘big’ scans were just before the first lockdown. Had to attend growth scans further down the line alone. I was also lucky it was an elective c-section so my DH could be with me throughout. Although after he was born, my DH was only allowed to visit once a day for an hour I think then was given his marching orders. For some reason the same person wasn’t allowed to visit more than once in a day, it had to be different visitors which made no sense to me because that’s two different sets of potential germs rather than one… I felt incredibly lonely and was in hospital for 4 days.

Since he was born I’ve seen a health visitor twice but once was last week and I had to ask for that appointment, it wasn’t just a given. It’s because I’ve developed PND and it’s obviously difficult to say whether I’d have had PND regardless but the fact I haven’t been able to attend baby groups and feel totally isolated from family (we live away from them so during lockdowns couldn’t visit at all) definitely seems like the cause.

It’s totally shit. I’ve had missed miscarriages discovered at the 12 week scan twice and I don’t know how I’d have coped finding out alone. If pubs can reopen, partners should be able to accompany women to scans and definitely in labour.

The difference with Ireland is that restrictions have been officially lifted but the maternity hospitals aren’t paying any attention to that and carrying on as it suits them.

We're due in a month and hubby has only been allowed to the last scan.
We found out bad news at 20 week scan and nurse couldn't understand why I was alone so I did point out that they letter we received said no partners allowed.
We have to do lateral flow tests if both of us go to an appointment now but I don't have to if I go alone?!
We are told when going in for labour to do a lateral flow test before leaving for the hospital - they will then do another when we get there and then a pcr. Even if these are all negative we still need to wear masks when walking around and hubby has to the whole time he's in the building! There doesn't seem to be any logic to the rules

YANBU Covid is no excuse for the massive reluctance to provide medical care lately, it's disgraceful.
I'd recommend getting a private scan if you can, we did, it was fifty quid and DH was allowed in.

"The quick tests you mention (the ones the Botox clinic are using) are not reliable. They give a very high rate of false negatives - ie people testing negative when they should test positive - especially in asymptomatic people. So that's why the hospitals aren't using them. "

Yet schools are relying on these and the NHS is spending £millions supplying them.

I was talking about Irish hospital testing of patients though, as per the OP. Irish schools don't use these tests. Our health advisory body has been very wary of them and slow to advocate their use, saying they work best in high incidence situations where many are symptomatic, not in low incidence situations where many are pre- or asymptomatic.Their use has been much more limited in Ireland than in the UK.

I hope things improve for everyone soon. The cyber attack to the HSE has caused endless difficulties recently that have made a bad situation worse.

The difference with Ireland is that restrictions have been officially lifted but the maternity hospitals aren’t paying any attention to that and carrying on as it suits them.

Restrictions are still in place at general hospitals too, not just maternity hospitals. (I have a relative receiving treatment at the moment and absolutely no visitors are allowed.) In general, restrictions are easing, yes, thankfully, but I haven't heard any official guidance re the lifting of safety measures in hospitals?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/maternity-restrictions-still-in-place-despite-agreement-they-should-end-1.4591917%3fmode=amp

Having had my early maternity care in the NHS and then returned home to Ireland. The difference is actually sickening. The hse have issued new guidelines but the hospitals are just flat out ignoring them and doing what ever they please. Yet the Irish maternity hospitals have women packed in like cattle. My first appointment in Ireland was a huge shock to the system. Women everywhere , no room for social distancing at all. They are not a bit worried about covid at all, it's just another way to control and isolate irish women at one of the most vulnerable times of their lives.

@TheKeatingFive
Thank you, I hadn't seen that, there does seem to be a disparity between the HSE and hospital positions on the matter. Hope it's resolved soon, things are so difficult at the moment.

YANBU, I think people have genuinely lost their humanity in all this. I have a friend who lives in Asia and she had a baby 2 weeks ago by c-section. Her DH wasn't allowed to be with her for the birth or visit while she stayed in hospital and the first time he met his son was in the carpark when he picked them up to go home. I can't imagine what it must have been like for them both.

@InpatientGardener

What I really didn't understand was that when I had DD in August 2020, visiting was capped at 2 hours a day, then come January (middle of a wave) our trust increased visiting hours to 6 per day, and also started allowing partners to scans and all of labour. There seems to be zero logic behind these decisions, it surely can't relate to case numbers as they were higher in January than August. I would find it easier to accept the restrictions if they made sense.

@InpatientGardener where on earth are you that allowed 2 hours of visiting and then 6 hours of visiting?!?! I had DC1 in November and we were allowed a 30 minute visit per 24hours. I delivered DC1 at 3am after a 39 hour induction (first 27 hours I was alone) and DH was allowed to stay 1 hour after birth. He then wasn’t allowed his allocated 1.30pm visit that day because baby was born after midnight so he’d “used up his visiting allocation that day” 😡 I left with baby 12 hours after birth because the postnatal ward was absolutely horrific but had I stayed then I wouldn’t have been allowed a visitor until 1.30pm the day after birth