To ask what's the law or policy on wrap around care?

[drspouse]

My DS is in a short stay school which is handily quite near our house and he goes to a CM twice a week but he can't stay there for ever, and we are only being offered far distant schools that involve a taxi ride and have no after school care or extracurricular activities "because of the taxis".
There is a local MLD school that has after school care but it's not suitable for him.
I work 0.6 and a colleague just asked to go to 0.5 and was refused. I'm the higher earner but DH is a KW who trains other KWs and he can't drop to school hours either because lots of his training is day long or has to cover a choice of hours (and he's likely to have a day a week in the office, an hour away).
Is there any legal obligation to provide after school care or consider this in placement?
Or does the government just not want my taxes and DH benefit to society?

@cornflowersandpoppies

Why is that relevant

I just wondered if it was a matter of fighting the decision to send him to this school over another one instead and if op would be better served with advice on that rather than the school she doesn't like not offering child care.

Thanks @korawick12345.

It is partly that @SleepingStandingUp but they are very keen for us to accept specialist so if we can ask for things to make life easier (and not lose over half our income) we think we should be doing it now.

Sorry I havent read the whole thread but there is a law the Childcare Act which says councils must provide sufficient childcare including for disabled children. However no council actually follows it and it doesn't give an individual family a right to insist on childcare it just means the council should provide services to the public at large. I dont think there has ever been a legal case forcing the issue. The council should have its childcare sufficiency report on its website. You can campaign and complain eg to local councillor, MP and to the Council but dont expect to get anywhere. Under the last Lab govt tthere were schemes called Aiming High for Disabled Children and DCATCH which sought to remedy this problem but they were the first thing to go with austerity. So you are right you have been thrown under the bus and will now have to give up work and your pension or pay several times the usual cost per hour for childcare by hiring a nanny or PA (PAs arent OFSTED reg so you cannot use usual childcare schemes like vouchers or tax credits). You can ask for social care assessment but they will usually say they will fund short breaks so you get a break from caring but dont fund childcare. If however you get a budget you can use the payments for childcare if you want. The transport drop off is also a huge problem. Councils should be willing to consider exceptions to their policy. Is there any possibility of the MLD school allowing him to use their childcare but go to the other school?

That is interesting @moanymyrtle
If the taxi will drop at not-home (currently not their policy) it would make way more sense to do that at the CM that he knows, and is nearer our house.

@drspouse

That is interesting *@moanymyrtle* If the taxi will drop at not-home (currently not their policy) it would make way more sense to do that at the CM that he knows, and is nearer our house.

It’s likely they will allow drop off wherever you want as long as it is consistent and the same place everyday

Their policy is home only, and he wouldn't cope with CM every day (which is why we only do twice a week.).

Could DH be home the two child minder days so he's dropped at home and she picks up?

You seem determined to find problems and not consider any of the options being suggested so I wish you good luck. However I fear your intransigence may result in you ending up in a much worse situation.

@drspouse

Their policy is home only, and he wouldn't cope with CM every day (which is why we only do twice a week.).

Being dropped at the CM's doesn't mean he has to go there though.

When DD2 was in specialist for a while she was dropped off at her CM every day, but she only went there three afternoons. We just collected from the taxi and came home on the other two.

It wasn't ideal, but it was the only get round of the "one consistent drop off" rule they had.

Oh that's a good point. It would be bizarre but he knows them well so he'd manage that.
CM won't pick up except from her existing schools.

Can you move? Some schools have specialist units attached to mainstream schools, which could be a good option from what you described - Some are very good- I know a good one in Lancashire. It is totally a council lottery (having moved a lot and having a nightmare with our current one).

People/ things that could help (if you've not already tried them): IASS (parent partnership), Ipsea, Carers Trust, asking for a TAF, asking for direct payments (for a PA) and carers assessment, the SENCO at the school.

Hope you get it sorted, it's really hard isn't it.

@drspouse

Oh that's a good point. It would be bizarre but he knows them well so he'd manage that. CM won't pick up except from her existing schools.

It is a bit of a pain, especially in winter when the weather is foul, but when choices are so limited then you have to find a work around that works.

It's much more effective to be able to go to them and say "I want my child dropped off at X address every day. This is not an unacceptable distance from home, why is that not possible?" than to try and find another school or another childcare option further away. They'll argue it's not home, but you can argue it's a reasonable distance (assuming your CM isn't 20 miles away), there is continuity in the journey and isn't an unacceptable request.

If the CM and your home are pretty close then sometimes its possible to reach an agreement with the taxi co and not tell the council. The rules are ridiculous and seem to assume a parent - usually Mum will given up work. Most disabled children services work on the assumption 'Mum' can drop everything and attend appointments at short notice in the middle of the day. They havent moved with the times and assume if you have a disabled child you must be in social housing on benefits with nothing better to do all day. Services are going to have to catch up with the notion that these days most families need two working parents to pay the bills. Is there any flexiblity with your employer? The disability angle can make it hard to say no to flexible working so even if your colleague has been refused doesnt mean you would.

@korawick12345

And TBH unless you are a very high earner your taxes are probably worth a lot less than the cost of after school care for children with complex SEN and your DH may be a key worker but is unlikely to be irreplaceable. An SEN school placement is already costing the LA a lot out of budgets that are just getting smaller there is no way it works be cost effective to run wrap around care as well. I am not saying that is right by the way but just reflecting the reality of the situation.

This is not true. A parent who continues to work will be more likely to get a pay rise and pay more taxes in the future while dropping out of work force can result in long term unemployment or underemployement. I believe that wrap around care and care for disabled children should be government's obligation because lack of child care disproportionately affects women and it's a form of non-direct discrimination.

Our transport times vary day to day based on whether other kids are in that day or not, traffic etc. We are about to have a month of them being late due to roadworks. We couldn’t leave the house for work, it would be impossible. People who can use school clubs or childminders have no clue.

You could ask social care for a carers assessment, it may work.

If you use wrap around care you no longer get the transport though, you have to get them to school yourself.

@Lili132 I don’t want to derail the thread but for the govt it works out far cheaper to have parents care for their own disabled children rather than fund childcare for them. It’s not right and long term has a detrimental impact on the families but in terms of govt spending very few people will contribute enough tax on an individual level to pay for the costs associated with raising and caring for a disabled child, unless they are very high earners. It’s far better for the govt financially for parents to care for their own children with disabilities and just receive carers allowance, which is scandalously low.

@drspouse

Oh that's a good point. It would be bizarre but he knows them well so he'd manage that. CM won't pick up except from her existing schools.

I have read through all of your posts. I do think that you sound incredibly aggressive and unreasonable. I also understand how infuriating it can feel when managing special needs issues, both as a parent and as ex SEN teacher.

Regardless of school type, as a parent you have the right to make suggestions for consideration. They have the right to follow their policies and not consider or pay lip service. Not one of our local mainstream schools has an after school club where I live. So that's over 100 Square miles with not one afterschool club and only 3 breakfast clubs. So the issue isn't specific to the schools you're looking at.

The contract for taxis is via the local authority. I assume he has an EHCP. And these contracts are between the LA and the taxi provider. Their contracts all, in my experience, state from home address to school. So much so that children with separated parents still only get dropped off at one home, and so the other parent has to collect from there, even if they have 5050 shared care. But I do understand why these contracts do need to be static as it could involve more complex routes that change daily, impacting on the other children's journeys as well.

If using a child minder twice a week, why couldn't someone be paid/arranged to collect from your home and walked to the childminder?

If your colleagues are pissy over you not working 6 to 7,then that needs addressing and you need to apply for flexible working.

But I do also think that yabu to assume that you and your oh should both be able to have the roles you please when you have responsibility for a child with additional behavioral needs. Ultimately, your child is your responsibility and you have to make sacrifices and compromises. I state this as a mother of a child with autism. I accept that there are things I won't be able to do, because I chose to have a child and my child has additional needs. That's what we signed up for.

Thousands of parents of children with additional needs manage this. And ultimately, so will you have to.

Would an after school nanny work

Then they get dropped off home and someone there

Lots of schools don’t have after school clubs

And the special needs need me doesnt , my great nephew goes there. Mum was told no after school clubs due to their complied needs and would need extra staff there abs not sure how tired kids would be after a full day of school

"Thousands of parents of children with additional needs manage this. And ultimately, so will you have to."

Tbf there are thousands of parents of children with additional needs who do not manage this. There are many who cannot have both parents working full time or indeed at all because there is no childcare for their child. I can't even find suitable respite for mine (as in it doesn't exist) never mind childcare. Although I get your point that in this particular situation there are many of the same problems that parents whose children do not have additional needs, still face.

@BusyLizzie61 if you are in England you have the right to ask the school to arrange out of hours care.

Why are people so keen to compete over who has it worse?

What kind of SEN does your child have, if you don't mind me asking?

I have dc with SEN and I have found the only way we can manage is for me to be an unpaid carer and for dh to work from home.

I have learnt that it's really difficult to get a suitable school placement for a child with SEN. I have the opposite problem to you in that my 8 year old child ideally should be in a MLD school but there aren't any so I had the choice of a SLD school or mainstream. He is in mainstream at the moment.

I also have a child who has autism but who is very academically able when he can be persuaded to not lick the walls of the classroom, spin round in circles etc and actually do the work he has been set.

I also have a child who has sensory and communication needs but is apparently not disabled enough for disability activities but is too disabled for mainstream activities. Thankfully he can go to disability activities that allow siblings because of his brothers who do qualify.

The system for children with SEN sucks and we have to fight for the bare minimum all the time. I'm sorry I can't offer a solution but I do understand.

He has ADHD and dyspraxia.
He is also too disabled (mainly too anxious) for mainstream activities and not disabled enough for disability groups - or has the wrong disability (i.e. not ASD).

In other words, the costs and needs of the taxi driver comes first.

Nope there is only so much funding available, and it has to be used to give the maximum value. A taxi driver may have 4, (Maybe as many as 10 in a minibus) children to drop off and that means it has to be a certain route to drop children off. A price will be negotiated for the term and there are a number of reasons it has to be that way.

I know it is frustrating but it isn't discrimination, your child is going to attend an independent school which will cost much more than a 'normal' school. If it's the one I'm thinking of it's about £50 000 in fees. And it is absolutely right that a child who needs a special education gets one.

Your child is also getting a taxi to / from school and again if that's what he needs that's what he should get.

The problem seems to be that you want different things for different days and that's not going to happen.

Your options are to use a childminder 5 days a week and have the taxi drop your ds there.

Have some sort of childcare in your home after school.

You said your dh has an office, can he not deliver training there or from there?

[quote drspouse]@BusyLizzie61 if you are in England you have the right to ask the school to arrange out of hours care.

Why are people so keen to compete over who has it worse?[/quote]
And the school can say no, or offer a provision which doesn't meet your needs. Or which is too full. You can't get in our bfast club as it's full, after school club has stopped for yr 1 and for other ages it's one session per week on different days