To ask what's the law or policy on wrap around care?

[drspouse]

My DS is in a short stay school which is handily quite near our house and he goes to a CM twice a week but he can't stay there for ever, and we are only being offered far distant schools that involve a taxi ride and have no after school care or extracurricular activities "because of the taxis".
There is a local MLD school that has after school care but it's not suitable for him.
I work 0.6 and a colleague just asked to go to 0.5 and was refused. I'm the higher earner but DH is a KW who trains other KWs and he can't drop to school hours either because lots of his training is day long or has to cover a choice of hours (and he's likely to have a day a week in the office, an hour away).
Is there any legal obligation to provide after school care or consider this in placement?
Or does the government just not want my taxes and DH benefit to society?

They will be in the minibus anyway regardless of when they go.
If 10 of them go in a minibus and it takes 2 hours to transport rather than two in a taxi taking an hour then they won't be in it for as long.

They will be in the minibus anyway regardless of when they go I assume op wants wrap around care at school so she or DH can collect and thus reduce the journey time

@drspouse

The fact he has got a place in sen provision is brilliant and hopefully he thrives. I don't like the school at all, so I don't think it's brilliant.

What do you want then op? A different placement? Boarding? Homeschooling? I'm assuming you dc is complex needs since a mainstream cannot meet his needs.

In fact, on working out a more specific Google search I saw that if my DS was in a free school, academy or maintained school I'd have the right to request. They have to have a good reason to say no
You've misunderstood.
You have the right to request wraparound care in academies or maintained schools. That is not the same as the schools needing to have a good reason to say no.
Schools offer their own wraparound care if there is enough demand and it is financially viable. They can also make their premises available for outside providers to run wraparound provision (which again, being a business will depend on the wraparound care being a viable business). They can also signpost elsewhere.

Schools don't have to provide wraparound care for 1 child just because the parent requests it.

I get it. I have been in a similar position for years with my two. We both work and our kids are in specialist school with no after school clubs. Your only option is to pay for after school child care at your house. I pay the taxi escort to drop my dd off last. She then comes in to the house with her and looks after her for an hour until one of us gets home. It works well for us but I would be in the shit if she decided to stop doing it or the taxi contact changed. There seems to be an expectation and assumption that parents of children with disabilities don't work or shouldn't. There is no help out there. You need to cobble together your own solution.

So will he be on a free mini bus or a paid for taxi?

@PatriciaHolm

As I said above, Govt policy is that schools should point parents towards extended services, but there is no requirement to offer it themselves, and the old requirement for schools to ensure access to wrap around care has been diluted since the Conservatives came to power, and essentially have become just a "right to request", with no obligation to provide.

So basically no, there is no right to the supply of after school care.

A taxi contract is also very likely to stipulate that the child can only be collected from and delivered to certain points. You can try talking to the LA about this, as a PP mentioned, but again there is no obligation on them to vary this.

@PatriciaHolm has posted this twice. It's the correct answer to what I think is the question you're asking. SEN or not, you can request, but there's no legal requirement to provide. My children's schools don't provide their own, but they deem that local provision is sufficient to meet the demand and that's the end of their responsibility. They direct any queries to 2 local providers.

I haven't misunderstood at all.
If my child was in mainstream I'd have the right to request.
The school could refuse for a number of reasons including that there are enough options locally and that not enough parents want it.

What do you want then op?
A local school so he can make friends that he can actually see after school.
Failing that, a mainstream school that's a) nice and b) in a location where we can pick up after c) after school club a couple of times a week.

"If 10 of them go in a minibus and it takes 2 hours to transport rather than two in a taxi taking an hour then they won't be in it for as long."

The LA gives no fucks about anything other than total cost. Ds's transport has been a shambles for the last 2 years due to choosing a cheaper provider who couldn't do it properly but it saved the LA a few thousand and that is all they care about.

@shakeitoffshakeacocktail

So will he be on a free mini bus or a paid for taxi?

I don't really know what you mean here. Obviously drivers of either minibus or taxi get paid.

I think we're going to need the times of taxis in writing and a confirmation that it won't change more than X minutes in the next Y years before accepting any place anyway, from what people are saying.
As he gets car sick anyway, even if we don't get school refusal with a 45 minute journey at 8 am we might well get it with a two hour journey at 7 am.

A local school so he can make friends that he can actually see after school.
Failing that, a mainstream school that's a) nice and b) in a location where we can pick up after c) after school club a couple of times a week.

Isn't that what all parents want? Unfortunately there aren't enough local schools (nor is there enough money) so it's often the luck of the draw.

There's a reason why many families with small DC either have a SAHP or pay for a nanny.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/778997/Rightsstorequesttguidance-2019.pdf

A local school so he can make friends that he can actually see after school.
Failing that, a mainstream school that's a) nice and b) in a location where we can pick up after c) after school club a couple of times a week.

The problem is, no parent/child has a right to this, whether mainstream or not. Unfortunately, plenty of children even at primary, mainstream or not, end up at schools that aren't especially local, or the parents aren't happy with, or in a location that works, or that have after school club.

Given your son's needs, is either of those things actually possible? Is there a local school that can actually meet his needs?

I’m not sure there’s much point in posting in AIBU as any correct legal based advice could get lost within all the highly opinionated but utterly irrelevant posts. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@drspouse

I think we're going to need the times of taxis in writing and a confirmation that it won't change more than X minutes in the next Y years before accepting any place anyway, from what people are saying. As he gets car sick anyway, even if we don't get school refusal with a 45 minute journey at 8 am we might well get it with a two hour journey at 7 am.

They can write this all they like (they won't) but they can't possibly guarantee this, I'm afraid. They can't and won't guarantee his position in the pickup routine won't change, for example.

@drspouse

I haven't misunderstood at all. If my child was in mainstream I'd have the right to request. The school could refuse for a number of reasons including that there are enough options locally and that not enough parents want it.

What do you want then op?
A local school so he can make friends that he can actually see after school.
Failing that, a mainstream school that's a) nice and b) in a location where we can pick up after c) after school club a couple of times a week.

Well a local school that can meet needs likely doesn’t exist as it would be unusual for an LA to place in a specialist independent school further away if there was a closer option that was available. parental preference for mainstream is something LAs tend to go along with as it is the cheapest option so if this isn’t on the table there will be a significant reason why. Given that your son is in a sss I am guessing he may have been permanently excluded or similar. That in itself will give many mainstream schools grounds for saying they can’t offer a place on the basis that it is incompatible with the efficient education of others. It seems that you have had a rough time educationally but you now seem to be finding fault with all options.

Op is moving closer to the school an option in the next few years? Outside office where you are for DH?

"I think we're going to need the times of taxis in writing and a confirmation that it won't change more than X minutes in the next Y years before accepting any place anyway, from what people are saying."

You won't get that. You usually get told transport details a week or so before the start of term, even then it can change without warning and LA school transport offices are often spectacularly unhelpful.

By all means turn down the placement but you may find that the LA name it anyway and then you will either need to deregister and EHE or you may be pursued for non attendance, because the will likely them terminate the place at the SSS. The LA have to offer a suitable placement not a Goldilocks ‘just right’ placement. It’s going to very difficult to work if he is at home all the time

@Sockwomble

"I think we're going to need the times of taxis in writing and a confirmation that it won't change more than X minutes in the next Y years before accepting any place anyway, from what people are saying."

You won't get that. You usually get told transport details a week or so before the start of term, even then it can change without warning and LA school transport offices are often spectacularly unhelpful.

Also this!

@drspouse

like all other parents that's on you to provide Would you also say this to the parents of a new reception child whose DC had been allocated a place in a school 5 miles away with no wrap around care and whose flexible working request had been refused.

Yes?

Surely after school care is always the parents responsibility

Are there definitely no mainstream schools nearby that would be able to accommodate him?

Or are his needs too complex for that?

What do you do in summer and other school holidays OP and would that be an option for after school?

In other words, the costs and needs of the taxi driver comes first.

No, not at all and I am sorry if I did not explain myself properly. The school believed that as most of the children had such long days anyway, it was in their best interests to leave at 3.30pm with their regular taxi driver and travel with their usual companions. The school's experience had found that adding to the length of the 'school' day was too much for the children whose special needs meant they often needed to concentrate extra hard and whose physical needs meant they could be really tired by 3.30pm.

The taxi drivers did not come first. It would have been the same payment to them for collecting a child at 3.30pm or the same child at 5.30pm. If anything the taxi companies would earn MORE money for having to collect children at different times in addition to the 3.30pm one. I meant the local authorities of the children would have to pay more if children that usually shared a taxi now required two at different times. Sorry I did not explain that.