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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask what's the law or policy on wrap around care?

234 replies

drspouse · 26/06/2021 11:12

My DS is in a short stay school which is handily quite near our house and he goes to a CM twice a week but he can't stay there for ever, and we are only being offered far distant schools that involve a taxi ride and have no after school care or extracurricular activities "because of the taxis".
There is a local MLD school that has after school care but it's not suitable for him.
I work 0.6 and a colleague just asked to go to 0.5 and was refused. I'm the higher earner but DH is a KW who trains other KWs and he can't drop to school hours either because lots of his training is day long or has to cover a choice of hours (and he's likely to have a day a week in the office, an hour away).
Is there any legal obligation to provide after school care or consider this in placement?
Or does the government just not want my taxes and DH benefit to society?

OP posts:
hibbledibble · 26/06/2021 13:27

It looks like your options are an after school nanny at your house, after the taxi home, or a childminder that collects from the school.

Lots of schools don't provide wrap around care, which is inconvenient for parents.

Original poster
drspouse · 26/06/2021 13:27

had their been any form of after school club journeys home would have been more difficult and expensive.
In other words, the costs and needs of the taxi driver comes first.

OP posts:
Sirzy · 26/06/2021 13:28

What time would you need childcare until then? If the school is 45 minutes away it will be a good hour after school finishes before he gets back anyway won’t it

Dippydinosaurus · 26/06/2021 13:29

There should be childminders who collect from the school. The taxi should then collect from the childminders at a certain time and drop off at yours when you're back from work. Not ideal but I don't think they're obliged to provide after school care. It's unusual that no schools you're looking at provide wrap around

LivingDeadGirlUK · 26/06/2021 13:29

I'm really sad to hear that things haven't improved in this area since the 90's OP. I went to a specialist school with a 45 min commute via taxi and it meant no after school clubs, meeting with friends, and all hell braking loose if I got a detention. My parents worked full time and relied heavily on relatives to pick up my sister and be home when I came back, eventually we were 'latch key kids'.

The commute got longer and longer as more and more kids were added to my taxi run, I was the furthest away and by the time I was in 6th form I was being picked up at 7:30 for an 8:50 start. My parents would/could never pick me up if I was ill, so I would spend the rest of the day in the sick bay.

There wasn't really such a thing as afterschool club in the 90's, it's disappointing to hear that the council won't offer the flexibility to drop off at childminder or from an after school club.

gillysSong · 26/06/2021 13:29

I had no idea short school placements existed. No idea what a MLD is, never heard of it.

If you have kids it's up to you to provide for their needs after school, including childcare if you work Confused

korawick12345 · 26/06/2021 13:30

@drspouse

had their been any form of after school club journeys home would have been more difficult and expensive. In other words, the costs and needs of the taxi driver comes first.
Yes the LA have to show that they are getting good value for taxpayers money and paying for two taxis rather than one to solve your childcare issues would likely not be considered a good use of taxpayer funds.
Garraty47 · 26/06/2021 13:32

Would a Monday-Friday residential school be something that you would consider?

Original poster
drspouse · 26/06/2021 13:33

paying for two taxis rather than one to solve your childcare issues
What about paying for two taxis instead of one to ensure DCs' well-being, not being in the taxi for an hour and a half either end of the day?

OP posts:
MildredPuppy · 26/06/2021 13:34

Lack of childcare and taxis and schools far away are why i no longer have my 'proper career' and pay proper taxes.

I hope you find a solution. One of my fruends got direct payments to fund a PA found by social servies who greets the taxi. Anothrr friend found a charity running a club in a different town and got the taxi to drop there but it was a battle

SleepingStandingUp · 26/06/2021 13:35

If your DH can't work once your child is home, how many hours is that a really a week? I'm assuming DS would get back 4pm at the earliest?

How many days will you be home to meet him? I'm assuming 2? The other 3 days could a Nanny either take him straight our or DH work elsewhere for an hour or two?

cornflowersandpoppies · 26/06/2021 13:35

Why are people going on about not knowing what MLD is? She clarified on the first page Hmm

I do think this is one of the many ways disabled children and their parents are let down.

SleepingStandingUp · 26/06/2021 13:36

@drspouse

paying for two taxis rather than one to solve your childcare issues What about paying for two taxis instead of one to ensure DCs' well-being, not being in the taxi for an hour and a half either end of the day?
So will he be in the taxi for 45 minutes or 90?
korawick12345 · 26/06/2021 13:37

@drspouse

paying for two taxis rather than one to solve your childcare issues What about paying for two taxis instead of one to ensure DCs' well-being, not being in the taxi for an hour and a half either end of the day?
Well if you could argue that it was well-being issue that was impacting on your child then that would be fair enough but that isn’t why you want it , you want it to facilitate childcare. Equally it could be argued, what is the benefit to the child with complex SEN who is already having an extended day due to transport, of going to childcare rather than be able to go home. Neither of these options benefit the child they are both around adult needs.
Original poster
drspouse · 26/06/2021 13:37

@Garraty47

Would a Monday-Friday residential school be something that you would consider?
Not at the moment, he's 9. Though this school does have boarding, which begs the question, why can't they do an hour's chilling/singing/ball skills/craft with the day pupils as well as the boarders and then half the day pupils would go home at a different time and have shorter journeys?
OP posts:
Original poster
drspouse · 26/06/2021 13:38

what is the benefit to the child with complex SEN who is already having an extended day due to transport, of going to childcare rather than be able to go home.
They'd be happier with an hour of activities than an hour sitting in a minibus?

OP posts:
BungleandGeorge · 26/06/2021 13:43

The reality is that many of us are allocated schools which don’t meet our needs in every way. The ‘right to request’ is meaningless really, it’s very easy to give a reason and decline it, just the same as your right to request flexible working. There is no obligation to provide childcare for any school, many don’t. If you qualify for free school transport it is for school hours only and only to home address. In your position I would negotiate your hours with your employer. If you only work 0.6 fte there is a list of flexibility there within school hours or evenings without you having to reduce your hours. Or maybe consider moving house?

PatriciaHolm · 26/06/2021 13:45

Though this school does have boarding, which begs the question, why can't they do an hour's chilling/singing/ball skills/craft with the day pupils as well as the boarders and then half the day pupils would go home at a different time and have shorter journeys?

Well - that would involve employing more staff to cover those activities for more children, presumably with higher ratios than in regular childcare, as well as other organisational reasons (as well as reasons around the varying needs of the children, which will be more than in a regular school) and presumably more taxis if the sharing can't happen as they aren't leaving at the same time.

I would suggest the first port of call is the LA and talk about flexibility of the taxi. Have they actually stated to you that your son would be sharing, and that they will only pickup and drop at certain times and places or is this so far just an assumption?

Sockwomble · 26/06/2021 13:45

The law is that the wishes of the parents (and child) must be considered. So if there is an alternative placement that you would prefer for whatever reason then it must be named unless it there is one of the 3 legal reasons not to. So if you can find an alternative which works for childcare where the total cost including transport is not much different in costs then you should get it.

There is though no legal right to insist on a school with after school clubs etc.

upthekyber · 26/06/2021 13:46

Basically no they don't you don't get wrap round care in special needs education. Transport will also only drop at one address so you can't ask for 2 days a week at a childminder or relative and 3 at home, you have to pick an address and stick with it, even if you move house it can take them 6 weeks for them to reorganise your transport.
You would hope as they got older and they might be able to manage for an hour or two on their own (if yours can) you are not allowed to as the taxis have to drop into the charge of and over 18 year old.

I trained my sons taxis over 2 months that I was in but they came in via the back, and then I started a part work from home part office job and just prayed they didn't notice as they have to report and leave with the police if not.

After 6 months my husband got work from home on the days I was out.

So no they don't want your taxes or your talents and they don't want you to earn or have a decent standard of living, which is why the careers pay and the way it is handily managed so you can't really earn any money on it as the limit is always slightly less than 16 hours minimum wage.

Basically they want us to just put up and shut up and this is one of the million reasons why so many carers can't work.

Hankunamatata · 26/06/2021 13:46

OP then sen education system is a shambles. There isn't enough schools or places or support in mainstream or money. Nevermind wrap around care that's an afterthought and not an essential service - to the government.

You have seen this by not having a suitable placement for your child nearer home. The fact he has got a place in sen provision is brilliant and hopefully he thrives.

The system isn't going to marginally change so for the time being you need to look at realistic childcare options be it a nanny or dropping to childminder every day etc

korawick12345 · 26/06/2021 13:47

@drspouse

what is the benefit to the child with complex SEN who is already having an extended day due to transport, of going to childcare rather than be able to go home. They'd be happier with an hour of activities than an hour sitting in a minibus?
They will be in the minibus anyway regardless of when they go.

Yes it is totally shit for parents of children with SEN but actually maybe go to work on your employer and your husband’s employer to make your arrangements more flexible rather than try and force the flexibility at your child’s end. The fact is if your son is in a NMI specialist setting then you may well have had a battle to get him there. So I would try everything in your power to make the placement work

Hankunamatata · 26/06/2021 13:47

Marginally- magically

Original poster
drspouse · 26/06/2021 13:49

The fact he has got a place in sen provision is brilliant and hopefully he thrives.
I don't like the school at all, so I don't think it's brilliant.

OP posts:
upthekyber · 26/06/2021 13:50

@SleepingStandingUp

Op, special schools have no more obligation to provide wrap around care than standard schools. Is there an option to look at a standard school with good SEN support that's closer?

Alternatively, you need to find a child minder who lives near DSs school and collect him from there

This is hilarious, do you know how many child minders will take a child with special needs? Not many as they can't charge more and I think other parents would start removing their children if they did as they would need to give that child more attention