To be disgusted at neighbours storing full dog poo bags in shared alleyway

[BrokeBaroness]

I've just moved in and already got off to a bad start with next door neighbour as she was outraged at me pressure washing the filthy decking in my garden. Water trickled into her garden and she was fuming and actually came to my property to confront me and then stormed off when I offered to sweep any dirt once the water had naturally evaporated. Turns out she has sealed her drain so only gutter water can go down it and surface water has nowhere to go!

Anyway, NDN has a very yappy dog. It yaps at any slight noise from our side. Full bags of its stinking excrement are thrown over the top of their garden gate several
times a day. There is now a pile of about 8 filled dog poo bags right outside their gate in the alleyway between our respective houses. My garden gate is adjacent to hers so I have to walk within mere cm of the stinking mass to access my garden. Alleyway is 180cm (I measured it in preparation for fence).

NDNs also store various items of rubble in this alleyway including 2m high door frames (for their business) and bags of rubble. My children have to pass all this crap and I do worry they could be injured by it.

Would you bother speaking to them about it, given the tirade from her about pressure washing, or go straight to putting a note through the door? Would all this bother you? My plan is speak or note and then resort to council if need be.

I fully intend to erect a 2m fence right down the alley as soon as funds permit. This has tainted the move for me a bit. It's my first home post-divorce and wanted it to feel like a happy and peaceful sanctuary. I was left quite shaken by the confrontation the other day and it's been on my mind since. TIA.

Meant to say the alleyway is 180cm in width so fairly narrow, meaning all the rubble and excrement dominates the space. Alleyway runs the length of the houses.

What are the rights over alleyway? Do deeds state it should be kept clear, who owns who has row? Pick your battles. Do they dispose of poo bags each day?

Why would you put a fence down the alleyway? Your space will 90cm at most. Are you even allowed to put a fence down it? Think about deliveries big items will not fit. This will be the same for your neighbours.

That aside yes they need to clear the space, especially if there are items that can harm others. Just speak to them, but putting a pointless fence up is passive aggressive

No they are definitely not disposing of the poo each day. This lot has been building up for about 4 days.

The fence would not affect deliveries because there is no access to the house via the alleyway nor any windows and the garden gate at the end of the alley is only 90cm anyway.

The purpose of the fence would not be to be passive aggressive but to remove the stress for me to have to be on at them to clear up. If there is a fence, they can do what the want on their side.

I would normally just speak to someone in this situation but the woman has already shown she will fly into a rage over minor things so I thought notes might be best.

As for legality fence, the land registry shows that the boundary line goes right down the centre of the alley. I can't find anything in the deed about shared access or keeping the alley clear.

If they do this several times a day and there's 8 bags there now then I assume they clear them on a regular basis?

If your side of the alley is kept clear (bags of rubble and door frames are not generally dangerous to children unless the children are climbing on things they shouldn't) and unblocked then I'm not sure you have a leg to stand on, although I understand it can be annoying.

eeeooow, I'd put a fence down the middle and ask them not to hang their bags of poo on their own side. GROSS!

The woman literally tosses the bags of poo over the gate. She cannot see over the gate to check if anyone is there. I wouldn't dream of storing shit where my neighbours have to see it and smell it. It attracts rats and the bags do not contain the smell. Their wheelie bin is just a few meters down the alley but apparently too far for them to walk to.

I mean, to hang them on their own side!

If there is a fence, they can do what the want on their side

They're already allowed to do what they want with their side, as are you for that matter.

I'd measure carefully how much space you'd have once the fence is in, as you might turn it into quite a claustrophobic corridor.

I would speak to Environmental Health for advice. Yes they can do what they like on their land, but they can't if it causes a health hazard.

I don't know a lot about this but would it be the case that she is using her half (as per boundary line) as storage and then using your half to walk on for access?
If so, there would be action you could take on that basis I would think as you could say (legally/formally/whatever) she has no right of access to your side so therefore she needs to keep her own side clear in order to make use of the passage along the alley?

I should add that they had an actually bin bag hanging off a hook on the alley wall and had filled it with probably 20 bags of dog shit. The smell was too much so I threw it in the bin. Since then, they have begun to just dump the individual bags on the floor. So I don't know how often they will be clearing up as I did it last time.

Yes, their side is impassable due to all the rubble so they have to walk on my side.

There are 3 pvc door frames stacked against the wall and these wobble int he wind and could easily fall onto a child.

Just a thought, but I’d give her the benefit of the doubt and approach her again in the spirit of friendship. It could be that something happened or she had had a shitty day, and from this you might have got off on the wrong foot but still be able to forge a harmonious relationship going forward.

There’s more than one way to skin a cat, and although your hackles are rightly up due to how she behaved, give her the benefit of the doubt. If she’s an arsehole again, then that determines the relationship going forward.

Are you sure you "own" the land on which you ate planning a fence, whose boundary is it? Are there any drains to access?

@siblingrevelryagain

Just a thought, but I’d give her the benefit of the doubt and approach her again in the spirit of friendship. It could be that something happened or she had had a shitty day, and from this you might have got off on the wrong foot but still be able to forge a harmonious relationship going forward.

There’s more than one way to skin a cat, and although your hackles are rightly up due to how she behaved, give her the benefit of the doubt. If she’s an arsehole again, then that determines the relationship going forward.

Wise words. I will politely request that they don't store shit in the alleyway and make sure there are no health and safety Hazards.

If that doesn't go well, I'll approach the council. Dog poo attracts rats so is a concern.

@LIZS

Are you sure you "own" the land on which you ate planning a fence, whose boundary is it? Are there any drains to access?

I'm having a duty planner meeting with the council to check. Land registry shows I own it. Fence wouldn't affect them accessing their drains or garden.

I think you need to avoid escalation of dispute, if possible. Was the rubbish and excrement not there at any of the times you visited before buying?

Splitting and fencing the alleyway is possibly going to make moving things from front to back quite difficult - bicycles etc.

Initially, a friendly approach and explain you need to be able to use the alley without risk to yourself/children. Tell them they need to move the bags and rubble. Stand your ground.

Then assuming the response is not positive (it’s not likely to be, but you need to be seen to have been reasonable) get a solicitors letter sent, contact your local environmental health and do a bit of research about the business and things like payment of tax/public liability (in case you fell over their rubbish) and planning for business use.

Unless you are in a council property, they are not involved in boundary issues.

I would call environmental health on Monday, that is disgusting and the smell in the heat is even worse.
That and the other rubbish combined will get you a rat problem on no time.

@LemonRoses

I think you need to avoid escalation of dispute, if possible. Was the rubbish and excrement not there at any of the times you visited before buying?

Splitting and fencing the alleyway is possibly going to make moving things from front to back quite difficult - bicycles etc.

Initially, a friendly approach and explain you need to be able to use the alley without risk to yourself/children. Tell them they need to move the bags and rubble. Stand your ground.

Then assuming the response is not positive (it’s not likely to be, but you need to be seen to have been reasonable) get a solicitors letter sent, contact your local environmental health and do a bit of research about the business and things like payment of tax/public liability (in case you fell over their rubbish) and planning for business use.

The excrement was not there when we viewed. They only got the dog recently.

As for the rubble, there may have been some but it was during lockdown so I assumed they would clear it when tips reopened.

@LIZS

Unless you are in a council property, they are not involved in boundary issues.

It's not council property but the council have a planning department that will advise on things like putting up fences.

@Inthesameboatatmo

I would call environmental health on Monday, that is disgusting and the smell in the heat is even worse. That and the other rubbish combined will get you a rat problem on no time.

It might have to come to that. I thought more people on here would be disgusted by it tbh! I would never think storing shot and rubble next to my neighbour's gate would be acceptable.

That seems unusual but probably only covers the planning side ie. height, rather than any ownership or easement issues. Most councils are too overwhelmed by their planning and enforcement workload to offer an advice service on fencing!