To ask EXH to contribute to driving lessons?

[ProcrastinationIsMySuperPower]

Background: EXH and I have a daughter between us and split about 14 years ago, both now moved on with new partners and another child each. He sees our DD maybe half a dozen times a year, rarely over night. He pays basic maintenance (less than £50 weekly via CMS) and has never, ever contributed to anything else (school trips etc). I did once ask him to go halves on a residential trip, and he was non committal, his partner then contacted me and told me in no uncertain terms that 'they' give me enough already, and IABU to expect any more.

DD will be 17 soon, and wants to learn to drive. I've saved up a bit towards lessons, first car and first year's insurance, and was hoping that her Dad might help towards the lessons as they're quite expensive and I don't think I'll have enough to cover it. DH and I aren't well off, we're already paying nearly £1000 a year for DD college travel, plus she's doing an arts related course that has cost us a fair bit for specialist equipment (normally would be borrowed from school, Covid means they no longer lend stuff out). She also has music lessons, and other things like most kids.

His response... That's what he pays maintenance for, he would have expected me to have 'thousands' put aside for her by now given how long he's been paying. He doesn't think I should be using maintenance to pay bills; I don't think he's living in the real world! I try to reason with him but he won't budge.

I'm prepared to be told I'm being unreasonable - I'm so angry with him and perhaps that's clouding my perspective somewhat.

I should also add, that DD does have a job and is saving some money herself, but she couldn't work during lockdown so it's not gone too well!

I think posters telling the OP her child should be paying for her own driving lessons are BU. Every family is different. I will be paying for my eldest this year (and the ex is helping). He will get 10 lessons from each of us as a birthday present, and more at Christmas as needed. I don't mind paying for them at all, in fact am looking forward to being chauffeured about

Anyway OP YANBU, your ex is an arse, he doesn't pay enough to cover anything and is a selfish twat. Sadly there's not really anything you can do to make him be less of a prick

Yet another tight-fisted father who can't be bothered to maintain his child properly.

If his dd needs driving lessons, and if he can afford it, then he should contribute. Driving is a life skill and if you can afford it as parents you pay for lessons. I wouldn't pay for a car, although if ds came home from university and needed one to get to a job I might help out, but lessons are different (unless you live somewhere like London, but even then you may well need to be able to drive at some point). Anyway I don't think his excuse not to pay is "she lives somewhere with very good public transport" is it?

I read this thread and it could actually be me writing it exactly! Same response from my ExH. He pays £40 a week(or rather should be paying me, never actually does) and he’s currently taking that to appeal!! How ‘dads’ get away with this crap boils my piss!!! Men like that are pathetic. But no, I think your well within your rights to ask!

You could suggest your dd asks her Dad to contribute herself. She could point out what you already pay for her. Your dd will learn he does not value her. A sad lesson to learn but better than live under disillusionment.

Thank you for all the responses!

DD is saving to pay for lessons herself, but sadly hasn't had much luck (summer baby, so had to wait until August last year when she turned 16 to get a job, then lost it almost straight away due to lockdown). She doesn't EXPECT us to pay for her - I (and DH) want to help her.

We live in a pretty rural area with very little in the way of transport links, she goes to sixth form college about an hour's bus ride from here, and most of her friends live at least that far away or further. Driving is pretty essential here.

I knew I was on a hiding to nothing when I asked him, but he's very quick with the gushing Facebook posts whenever she does anything positive (when she got her GCSE results you'd have thought he'd done the work himself the way he banged on) that I thought it might be something he'd take an interest in/contribute to. Lesson learned.

@Chasingsquirrels

YANBU to ask, but you already knew he wouldn't. Is the maintenance he is paying "enough: in terms of CMS? If not put a claim in, you don't have long left to claim but you might as well.

He's self employed, and very good at keeping his earnings at just the right level to prevent himself having to pay any more.

He should have expected to pay half. He should be paying for all sorts of extras on top of cms.

Sadly, he can’t be forced legally.

He sounds like a fucking prince

Can she try the mumsnet £10 a day thread to boost her coffers a little

Intensive courses are good value if your determined

You probably knew he would say this
I knew mine would too
He won’t help her so I am and it’s gonna be on his conscience not mine (if he even has one)

He expects you to save most of it. Jesus, he has no idea does he. You can always ask but I don't think it's likely he will pay for them. A good parent would help if they could, maybe can't due to finances but in some cases they are just tight!!

£50 a week is naff all. I get even less for DS I have with my ex. I've given up!

@ProcrastinationIsMySuperPower

Background: EXH and I have a daughter between us and split about 14 years ago, both now moved on with new partners and another child each. He sees our DD maybe half a dozen times a year, rarely over night. He pays basic maintenance (less than £50 weekly via CMS) and has never, ever contributed to anything else (school trips etc). I did once ask him to go halves on a residential trip, and he was non committal, his partner then contacted me and told me in no uncertain terms that 'they' give me enough already, and IABU to expect any more.

DD will be 17 soon, and wants to learn to drive. I've saved up a bit towards lessons, first car and first year's insurance, and was hoping that her Dad might help towards the lessons as they're quite expensive and I don't think I'll have enough to cover it. DH and I aren't well off, we're already paying nearly £1000 a year for DD college travel, plus she's doing an arts related course that has cost us a fair bit for specialist equipment (normally would be borrowed from school, Covid means they no longer lend stuff out). She also has music lessons, and other things like most kids.

His response... That's what he pays maintenance for, he would have expected me to have 'thousands' put aside for her by now given how long he's been paying. He doesn't think I should be using maintenance to pay bills; I don't think he's living in the real world! I try to reason with him but he won't budge.

I'm prepared to be told I'm being unreasonable - I'm so angry with him and perhaps that's clouding my perspective somewhat.

I should also add, that DD does have a job and is saving some money herself, but she couldn't work during lockdown so it's not gone too well!

Reply back that maintenance is for her food, clothing etc, and that extras such a school trips, driving lessons are something that should be split equally by the biological parents

I actually think driving is part of education, and a skill which is part of being a fully "launched" adult (where no disabilities or medical condition prevents learning or driving). Of course not all parents can afford to pay for their children to learn to drive, and its vastly less important than a safe home, suitable clothing and nutritious food, but if parents can afford to pay for driving lessons its far more important than music lessons or an unnecessarily expensive phone contract rather than basic android pay as you go. I do think parents have a moral obligation to pay in the same way they have a moral obligation to pay for school supplies if that won't see the family struggling to pay rent/ bills/ food/ ordinary nin luxury clothing and transport costs.

Being able to drive makes a person more employable just as other qualifications do.

YANBU and your ex is batshit thinking the paltry maintenance he paid was to be saved up not spent on the day to day costs of raising his child!

Get your daughter to ask him, he may say yes to her

I'd have responded to his wife "I believe this is between Ex and myself-had I wanted your opinion I would have asked you-and since you've intruded into this discussion your husband has paid minimal support for a very long time and you both know DD wouldn't survive on that pittance were it not for me paying thousands and thousands more than he ever has-I thought for once he'd be interested in supporting her learning a life skill"

Of course you’re not being unreasonable to ask but you knew the answer before he even finished the request.

I personally think given your family finances, you were making life difficult for yourself by even thinking about buying a car and insuring it for a 17 year old.

Once more I am disappointed to see so many people making what I consider snippy comments to an OP who has asked a reasonable question . What has happened to MN ?
OP your ex is BU . Of course he is , he should want the best for his DC but sadly , so , so many think that throwing a pittance to the ex and having a meal with the DC every few months makes them Dad of the Year !
OP I went through all this 30 + years ago . Didn’t want to give me maintenance ( apparently I would use it to pay bills!). It was pre CSA so it went to court where ex was given short shrift to pay up . He then said he wanted receipts ! No .
All these years later my DC have hardly any relationship with their Dad as he never showed much interest in them or our DGC .

Oh and tell the wife to butt out - I had this too and refused to engage with her .

No words of wisdom but the same situation here. Rural area. Teen promised she’d get some money from her Dad for lessons for her birthday and then nothing. She asked and he’s basically said no. He lives in a $2m house in the USA, is “retired” at 44 as he’s sold his company in the UK and is married to one a very wealthy businesswoman. But hey ho he can’t afford anything more than the £50 a week maintenance he gives me. He’s just come back from a holiday to Las Vegas - his 5th this year.

We’ve been separated 16 years. He’s just a total arse.

You can ask and he can say no. It's not up to you what he spends his money on above the legally required maintenance. His attitude sucks though, it's one thing saying no, sorry and another giving you such a nasty response. His new partner should stay out if it though, no idea why she is contacting you. I'd ask that she never contacts you again unless dad and your daughter are both incapacitated.

I think this is really common, your child is seen as your problem to deal with which is sad

DD1 got 1 paid for lesson off her dad then 10 off me, I also have her insured on my car.
DD2 has been told that she won’t get any presents if she doesn’t go on holiday with them this year… she’s 17…. So guess who will be paying out for her lessons!

@EKGEMS

I'd have responded to his wife "I believe this is between Ex and myself-had I wanted your opinion I would have asked you-and since you've intruded into this discussion your husband has paid minimal support for a very long time and you both know DD wouldn't survive on that pittance were it not for me paying thousands and thousands more than he ever has-I thought for once he'd be interested in supporting her learning a life skill"

I'd have responded with just the first bit about it being between Ex and myself and left it at that.

To be honest if he's never paid for any extras then I'm not sure why you thought driving lessons would be any different. I'd have assumed he wouldn't when I asked in the first place. A leopard never changes their spots.

I see driving as a life skill too so will be funding lessons just like we did swimming etc.

If he pays child support he doesn’t have to pay anything extra. £200 from him monthly, plus you matching it and £80 child benefit (which most get) is nearly £500 a month to cover food, clothes, travel to college etc. That’s doable but he’s wrong to think there would be huge savings s from that when college travel costs are involved.

You’d have rent and utilities with or without children at home and both parents need a home so I don’t see basic living costs as part of child support as every adult would have those regardless.

YANBU to ask him to contribute to the cost of driving lessons. And YANBU to be dissatisfied by his response/expectation.

As PP has said driving is a life skill & depending on where you live it can be completely necessary for getting to and from e.g work. Being able to drive will open up employment opportunities for your DD.

Having said that, a car itself is probably not a necessity at this stage. Can you use the money you’ve saved to pay for the lessons and then reapproach her dad for contribution to car/insurance once she’s passed?

You should get dd to ask him.

It will be harder to say no to her.