To think gps need to unlock the doors/open properly

[Nousernameforme]

Theres an article on the bbc about childrens a&e being overwhelmed by visits that aren't needed. Aibu to think that these people would have taken their children to the gp had they been able to? I know that they say a lot of them wouldn't have needed to see a gp but the viruses right now are horrible, probably due to everyones immune system being protected for a year, so it's harder to tell what needs help and what will get better on it's own.
My youngest has just got over the most awful virus which if it had not turned a corner when it did I would have got him medical assistance and if I can't get it from a gp I would have had to take him to a&e.

Our gp surgery is locked up the phone lines are only for those who have no internet and if you do get through all they do is put a request through on the ask my gp thing. I or members of my family have tried to see the dr for about 9 things this past year and got in once. 4 times we were prescribed antibiotics having not seen a dr.
Can we not have an official unlocking of the gp surgerys now please.

Why would I come up with a system @sparemonitor?
I have my own job to do in very busy demand led part of the public sector. We too have to prioritise/ triage but seem to manage it better than GP surgeries do.

@OverByYer

Why would I come up with a system *@sparemonitor*? I have my own job to do in very busy demand led part of the public sector. We too have to prioritise/ triage but seem to manage it better than GP surgeries do.

hint. It isn't possible. We all try to do our best to design a system that works best for our local population. A system that is good for an urban population with lots of young people might not fit a rural largely elderly population. but in the end you can't fit a quart into a pint pot.

@clopper

There is a huge demand by students to study medicine at university. Often students with really high grades fail to get offered a place. Why aren’t we investing more in training our own home-grown doctors and nurses if they want to do the job?

I think keeping the ones we train is the first priority....

www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/thousands-of-overworked-doctors-plan-to-leave-the-nhs-bma-finds

Few medical students are planning on becoming a GP - the best aim for being a hospital consultant.

Clearly Blair's "cunning plan" to increase GP pay and let them work fewer hours didn't work, did it? So what is the answer to getting more GPs if higher wages and fewer hours doesn't work?

I have no problem with the GP having to get me triaged over the phone. In fact, in the past (pre-Covid) I've left a message for the GP to check something rather than go in as it's just a check on a repeated rash or an advice about a cut.

What is really annoying me at the moment is that we're told 'a doctor will call you back between 1pm and 6pm'. In the past I'd get an appointment for 3.40pm - so why can't a GP call me back at 3.40pm (or a time agreed)? I work just as hard as they do. I can't sit at my phone waiting for up to 5 hours for a GP to deem it the right time to call me! I work at a school - our teachers can't just leave a class to talk to a GP about their heavy period or rash on their penis! The person on checkout at the supermarket can't just drop everything to talk to a GP about their bad back or lump in their breast.

If appointments could be made in the past then telephone appointments should be just that - a time when someone will call you (within reason - I've sat in my GP surgery for 20 minutes plus as he's been running late).

I've had an ongoing shoulder problem for almost 6 months. One GP deemed it OK to see me to do an injection. No checking of the shoulder, just the injection. I'm now about to start physio. But no GP has bothered examining me. When I did go in there were four people in reception. We have a practice of 10 doctors. Now I appreciate they may have people in with them but you're not telling me a practice of 10 GPs plus HCA and nurses can't put, say, 3 GPs on telephone call back and the rest seeing patients.

In the past, by the way, when I did call for advice, the timescale was an hour. Now it's five hours.

And a friend of mine rang to get something checked with their 8 month old. The receptionist said 'can you take her to A&E'. It wasn't an A&E issue - it was a simple problem that needed antibiotics (she did get to see a GP as she insisted). And it wasn't for the receptionist to decide. My sister had the same problem - she has a history of lumps in her breast. The surgery told her to go to A&E. She told them she would see a GP or she would report them. Saw the GP that afternoon...

LondonJax I can appreciate it can be a pain to be given a 5 hour slot for being called back but GPs are seeing patients face to face, dealing with econsults, managing results and referrals, cleaning down their consulting rooms after anyone has been seen as well as phoning for telephone consultations, all within that 5 hour window.

We'll try to accommodate particular requests as far as possible "not before 4pm", "between 10 & 11" etc

It is crazily busy and we are flying by the seat of our pants. I am finding it more stressful and hectic than ever before in my 30 year career.

Yes, the lack of proper appointment times is a real pain in the neck. Pre covid, you didn't go and sit in the waiting room all afternoon waiting to be called in. You were given a time and, more or less, that time was kept. People working or with children can't just sit and wait all afternoon glued watching their phone. What's more infuriating though is where the doctor does ring and you miss it (maybe travelling and hitting a mobile blackspot, maybe already on the phone to someone else etc)., and they put you down as a FTA without trying again. That just suggests a really arrogant attitude that patients shouldn't do anything else - their normal lives aren't as important as the doctor apparently!

I always ring and leave a message that I'll call again.

The second missed call (usually 30-90 minutes later, depending on what else I have to do) is the last chance on that particular occasion & I'll say they'll have to ring back - if they do & I'm able to speak to them I will do, otherwise it'll be another appointment.

Personally I think it’s been great; the way of the future!

I love that I can fill in an online form any time of day and night and get a resolution within 48 hours max, without having to interrupt my work schedule by going to see a GP f2f. I can tell the GP the same thing over the phone as f2f. I don’t drive either, so it’s even more of an advantage. I also save time not having to take time out of working day to wait on hold 45-60 minutes trying to get through the to a rude receptionist.

In my surgery at least, accessing services has been vastly improved.

Before Covid the reception staff would do everything in their power to make it as difficult as possible to get an appointment. They once told me I had to have an appointment every 10 weeks to get the contraceptive pill, but that I could only have appointments between 10-16.00. I explained I worked 30 miles away FT and couldn’t take half a day off work every 10 weeks for the pill but she insisted it wasn’t her problem. Had to take the issue to the health board in the end and all of a sudden I got an annual prescription and checks. Now I can bypass all that rubbish with the staff and get the treatment I need quicker and easier than ever 😃

I changed surgery approx 12 years ago and was impressed with their service. Walk in option, appointments less than 3 weeks away, caring friendly receptionists. It changed a couple of years ago but since covid they're appalling. Doors locked, no on line bookings, 20 to 30 calls to get through to be offered a phone consult in 3 weeks time.
It's infuriating. No wonder people go to AandE. Not to mention those who gave up trying and are now beyond help.
I'm sure there are good practices. But there seems to be so many that aren't.
Ours was open for Nurse appointments but not for Doctors. It feels as though the Practice Nurses were treated as of lesser importance than the Doctors.
Also, I get frustrated but try not to blame the Receptionists. They are only doing as instructed.
Many people, front line and supermarket workers as examples, didn't have the option to hide away. We're 15 months in now. Plenty of time to adapt. Every other industry has.
GP'S get paid, by us the tax payer , to provide a service. It's time they did. By all means check if a phone consult will be OK but remember that Patients may work and can't sit between 8 and 6 waiting for a call that may or may not show up as spam or may be elderly or vulnerable.
I'm sure there are good practices. But there are too many that aren't and its unreasonable for GP's to hide behind their Receptionists. Patients should not have to be 'tri-arged' by Admin staff.
It's time for GP 's to stop moaning and sort this out. People shouldn't be using A&E because they can't get a GP appointment.

The lack of appointment times is really frustrating- practices do need to sort that out . I got a text to say a dr would call on x day with no time. I missed them twice, tried to call reception but couldn’t get though but gave up. Tried again the day after to call and say I had two missed calls. Couldn’t get through so did an e-consult form to say someone had missed called me. Eventually had a call with a different dr a week later. He did a referral asking for advice from the hospital and I’m still waiting nearly 6 weeks later (he said he was expecting it to be a week). It is a bit rubbish tbh.

@PussGirl

LondonJax I can appreciate it can be a pain to be given a 5 hour slot for being called back but GPs are seeing patients face to face, dealing with econsults, managing results and referrals, cleaning down their consulting rooms after anyone has been seen as well as phoning for telephone consultations, all within that 5 hour window.

We'll try to accommodate particular requests as far as possible "not before 4pm", "between 10 & 11" etc

It is crazily busy and we are flying by the seat of our pants. I am finding it more stressful and hectic than ever before in my 30 year career.

Sorry….. but GP coud manage to give a time for an appointment before. So why not for tel consultation? Being busy is not a reason, it’s an excuse esp when some surgeries manage to give a time

Mine gives me an appointment just like for a f2f appointment. I’ve been called within 5 mins of the appointment time.
There is no need to make people wait 4 hours. Can you imagine the effect on someone ringing because they feel suicidal?

@Badbadbunny

Clearly Blair's "cunning plan" to increase GP pay and let them work fewer hours didn't work, did it? So what is the answer to getting more GPs if higher wages and fewer hours doesn't work?

Maybe you need to start training more doctor. That means more spaces at uni. Which has never happened. And then you need to train them. That takes at least 7 years. And then you need to treat them well BEFORE they specialise in general practice, Do you remember the huge row over pay with junior doctors?

Don’t be surprised there isn’t enough gp if the only thing done was to increase the pay.

Meanwhile, current government is having problems because there are. too many immigrants as doctors/consultants. And are having a go at them (plus issues with visa etc,..) Do you think that will encourage those people to stay??

I’ve posted about this issue before. My gp has been excellent. One of the kids had a relatively minor issue during the first lockdown. Was triaged by phone and then seen in person. All good and I have no complaints.

A close family friend (different GP) has been calling his GP since March 2020 with classic symptoms of prostate cancer and has literally been fobbed off. Now he finally has been seen (after another friend managed to see him and rang on his behalf after seeing the state of him) he has finally been diagnosed with prostate cancer. All being well he has two years.

While I’m grateful that my own GP is functioning well, it’s an absolute disgrace that some are refusing to see, test or do anything, Family friend’s tale isn’t the only such story I have heard and it’s clear that something is going wrong somewhere. In fact you only have to read a thread a like this to see the scale of the issue. GP’s absolutely should be open as normal now. Every single other business is.

BungleandGeorge

The pension is part of their salary package and there are no bonuses or private health care etc which you’d get else where.

GP partners are self employed! I don't know if there are any NHS rules applicable to GP partnerships; but in any commercial partnership, say each partner has a gross profit share of £130,000 pa, and their tax payable is £40,000; then that leaves £90,000. They could draw £90,000 divided by 12, as their "salary". Or, they could decide to take out private medical care, costing say £5,000 pa each; only draw £4,000 a month, giving £53,000 drawn. Then at the end of the year, the profit share £90,000 less the £53,000 drawn on account; leaves £37,000, which they could give themselves as a "bonus".

There is no such thing as a free lunch - private medical care and a bonus for self employed people in a partnership are just drawings by another name!

My previous GP surgery was wonderful during lockdown, well organised telephone appointments and f2f appointments if needed.

I have recently moved house and registered (in the car park...) with a new GP surgery. I have had diareahh for over a week now and 111 say to see GP. GP says I can't have f2f as they're not seeing anyone, only a telephone appointment. Except I can't have a telephone appointment as I'm a new patient who needs a "new patient appointment" first. And they can't be done over the phone. I am disabled, a carer to my disabled DD and a lone parent to DD2.

@wherewildflowersgrow

See on on the next thread-probably after a few of you have name changed, and with new stories.,

Don't flatter yourself. From time to time, I decide to really cut my screen time (seeing as all our work is on computer);I quit everything on the internet and stop using a smart phone. However, if a problem comes up for me, there are posters on here, who know far more about that part of the law than I do, and I want to look at their posts, so I create a new account.

As for "stories" - you seek to belittle people recounting how their friend, relative or child has suffered, and possibly died?

What has receptionists lives being better got to do with it? You do realise receptionists have no say what so ever on if the doors are locked or open? Literally do not make up any of the rules.

Where did I say that receptionists have any say on whether the doors are locked or open?

You haven't explained why it is that the doors to surgeries are locked, so patients cannot deal with an admin problem in person, ie stand in a queue of 5 patients needing to speak to 2 receptionists: but probably 3 days later, those same people might all be standing in a queue in a pharmacy, waiting to be served? It looks like the GP is intent on protecting their receptionists from Covid, but doesn't care if those same patients give Covid to each other and all the staff in the pharmacy?

Then, the pharmacy staff get all the abuse from GPs' mistakes - say the GP tells a patient to go to the pharmacy and buy an OTC remedy. However, the product is not licensed for that use - its prescription only! Then the patient is

"BUT THE GP TOLD ME.....WELL, WHAT DO YOU KNOW, YOU ARE ONLY A SHOP GIRL!"

NotAllTheOnes previously we were only seeing patients in booked time slots with very few telephone appointments and no econsults so it was easier to keep to a schedule.

We are dealing with 30-50% more patient contacts per day than before covid with no extra resources (staff / funding / hours in the day)

It seems to me that there really is a huge disparity depending on area.
I've had only positive experiences of needing a GP over the past year.
I had some major gynae issues with the period from hell lasting for over a month.
Phoned GP surgery and was put on the list for telephone triage. I work in a school but luckily my line managers are human so I was allowed to keep my phone on me and answer it. Spoke to practice nurse who decided I needed to speak to a GP. GP phoned that afternoon and decided I needed F2F. Was seen the next day. I was then put on the 2 week pathway, had blood tests, an ultrasound, and was then up at the hospital for an appointment with a consultant that was then followed up by a hysteroscopy (because I have a weirdy shaped womb and a wonky cervix)
DH has been seen twice, once when his foot swelled up to about twice its usual size overnight and once when he hurt his knee.

HOWEVER - I have a weird lumpy thing on my hand. I'm trying not to phone my GP because it isn't 'urgent' but it has been there for a few months now. Pharmacist insists its a wart but it is not behaving like a wart - it gets bigger and smaller. I'm not going to take up GP time unless it hangs around much longer.

Its a shitty time for everyone but some GP surgeries are better than others.

@PussGirl

NotAllTheOnes previously we were only seeing patients in booked time slots with very few telephone appointments and no econsults so it was easier to keep to a schedule.

We are dealing with 30-50% more patient contacts per day than before covid with no extra resources (staff / funding / hours in the day)

I’m sorry but I don’t understand that.

What’s the difference between seeing people face to face and a tel appointment or e consultation?
It’s still a 10 mins slot (less with tel consultation from my experience). So why is it harder to keep to a timetable?

The fact you are seeing more people, I assume means longer days for the GP (eg writing referral letters etc…). Which I agree, isn’t going to be sustainable long term.

@JeffVaderneedsatray

It seems to me that there really is a huge disparity depending on area. I've had only positive experiences of needing a GP over the past year. I had some major gynae issues with the period from hell lasting for over a month. Phoned GP surgery and was put on the list for telephone triage. I work in a school but luckily my line managers are human so I was allowed to keep my phone on me and answer it. Spoke to practice nurse who decided I needed to speak to a GP. GP phoned that afternoon and decided I needed F2F. Was seen the next day. I was then put on the 2 week pathway, had blood tests, an ultrasound, and was then up at the hospital for an appointment with a consultant that was then followed up by a hysteroscopy (because I have a weirdy shaped womb and a wonky cervix) DH has been seen twice, once when his foot swelled up to about twice its usual size overnight and once when he hurt his knee.

HOWEVER - I have a weird lumpy thing on my hand. I'm trying not to phone my GP because it isn't 'urgent' but it has been there for a few months now. Pharmacist insists its a wart but it is not behaving like a wart - it gets bigger and smaller. I'm not going to take up GP time unless it hangs around much longer.

Its a shitty time for everyone but some GP surgeries are better than others.

You see for me this is where the danger is.

I’ve seen a few people now saying they won’t bother the GP because it cannot be that urgent. Only to discover it was.
We are not GP and can’t diagnose (nor can pharmacist for what I understand). Asking people to diagnose themselves to evaluate if it’s urgent or not is leaving the door wide open to serious issues being untreated.
Might you, this will then be the patient’s fault then because they waited too long before seeing someone

NotAll A telephone consult can easily take as long as a face to face in order to take an adequate history and be confident of diagnosis - often a face to face is booked on the back of a telephone consult if a hands on examination is needed, so two patient contacts needing fitting into the system.

It is ten minutes per patient in the system, but trying to deal with often several problems in the one appointment creates delay, and outrage/anger/complaints if we try to limit it to just the one or two - the ten minutes includes writing everything up, organising any tests and these days cleaning the room if they've been seen face to face.

Yes we could give longer appointments, but that would mean fewer in the day or longer days overall - my days are never shorter than nine hours (ten when I'm on call) & I have a life to live outside work. I work full time which is pretty knackering, but for various personal reasons cannot afford to cut down.

Wiping down the consulting room after each patient limits how many we can see face to face as it eats into the time available; telephone appointments and econsults are fitted in between.

Often I'll ring the patient and not be able to get hold of them, even if they've specified a particular time and I'm accurate with that - more wasted time.

My whole day is punctuated with tasks, queries and other interruptions - although these can be grouped into "spare time" between surgeries whenever possible, often they can cause delay.

I have a reputation for running my face to face clinics on time, but owing to all the facts mentioned above, this is almost impossible to do now, which I hate and find stressful.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/alarm-sounds-over-norths-hidden-20860153

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/midwinter-nhs-crisis-midsummer-20913585.amp?__twitter_impression=true

“Sometimes you get lots of pressures on GPs, or the ambulance service, or A&E, or urgent operations, or on pharmacies or dentists,” he says.

“What you don’t normally get is all of that at the same time and that’s why clinicians are saying this is ‘unprecedented’ - the escape valves aren’t there.”