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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

5yr old DS lying/stealing things he's been told he can't have.

40 replies

BeatieBourke · 22/06/2021 20:03

Looking for some perspective here. How would you approach this?

Today DS came home from school with a massive cone bag of sweets because it was another kids birthday. Their mum does it it every year. I don't like that as a thing but that's another story.

I told DS he could have 3 sweets (they were big ones, like a Refreshers chewy bar, not 3 gummy bears) because it was 4pm on a Tuesday and nearly dinner time. I put the rest away in the kitchen and got on with dinner.

I while later I went back into the living room and he looked like something was up. I asked if he was alright and he said yes. He was obviously feeling guilty because I've come down from putting him to bed and just found the empty cone of sweets stuffed behind a sofa cushion.

OK. Not the worst crime in the world. He's five. Kids like sweets. Maybe I should have hidden them better.

There's a recent trend here. DS has a tablet and he's only allowed on it for 1 short time after school and a little at weekends. He's Minecraft obsessed and finds it hard to put down, which has led to a few extra restrictions.
He's always been an early riser (no matter what time he goes to bed) but lately this has improved. So we thought. A week or so ago we discovered he in fact wasn't sleeping later, but had discovered where the tablet is kept (in my desk drawer) and had been sneaking downstairs st 5am, taking it, aying on it for over an hour, and then PUT IT AWAY AGAIN before coming to wake us up at 6.30. We would ask him if he'd just woken up, pleased, and he said yes.

Now, kids lie, and get away with what they can, and like sweets and co.puter games. Big deal. But something about this level of scheming really pisses me off! I mean, hats off for the sheer gall, and maybe a level.of I telligence (I have no idea what's 'normal') . But it kind of worries me. I don't like the fact that he clearly knows he shouldn't be doing something but does it anyway on the basis that he won't get caught.
All of this comes on the back of him generally being quite insolent and cheeky lately. He 's just being 5, but with a heavy dose.of answering back, sarcasm and sass (which he can only have learned from us! Class parenting there 👏)

I am going to ban sweets and treat until the end of next week, and tell him if he does it again a day out we have planned won't happen. Should I explain that the lying is wrong, and why? Or just metre out the consequences and keep it simple and tangible.

He is quite an emotionally intelligent kid and so.etimes I think I treat him as though he's older than he is . He's also an only child (not by choice) which is.probably evident from the amount of ha d wringing over so.ething so apparently small!

OP posts:
BeatieBourke · 22/06/2021 20:03

Sorry for all the bloody typos. My keyboard is being weird.

OP posts:
nimbuscloud · 22/06/2021 20:09

I would just get rid of the tablet completely tbh.
The sweets I can understand.
Keep it all very straightforward.

PandasCatsWolves · 22/06/2021 20:13

Agree to total break from tablet.

I wouldn't remove the day out. That punishes everyone abs it's completely untreated. Make the punishment clear and simple.

Sweets. - chalk that one up and hide them better !

PandasCatsWolves · 22/06/2021 20:14

Untreated should say unrelated

WiddlinDiddlin · 22/06/2021 20:16

If you reduce the availability of anything, you increase the value.

Can you play Minecraft usefully, satisfyingly for the short time he is allowed to play it?

What is the goal re getting up time - that he sleeps longer, you can't force someone to sleep more than they can sleep - or is it that he remains in his room quietly?

I agree the deviousness and deceit, stealing the sweets he knew he wasn't to have - that needs dealing with, but I think in some instances you are pushing him to be devious with unreasonable rules/goals here.

If you can't play Minecraft satisfyingly/usefully for 10 minutes - in the same way you cannot watch a half hour soap in 10 minutes - then you can't. Limiting his time just creates frustration.

What about a longer time allowance but fewer times a week - it appears he CAN limit himself to an hour and a half in the mornings because he has been doing that without you noticing for some time!

Whilst there need to be consequences, if you insist on rules that make no sense and just go further down the road of punishment, particularly with consequences that are some way ahead, and require good behaviour for a long time and then one slip up results in the whole lot having been effectively, a wasted effort.. you'll soon run out of consequences and have an even more frustrated child.

BeatieBourke · 22/06/2021 20:18

Should add, since we found out about the tablet thing he hasn't been allowed on it and it's so.ewhere he can't find it/see it/reach. We got it to help with home schooling in lock down (which is massively did, all work sent home was electronic) but has been nothing but a ball ache since then to be honest (that said I've seen the stuff he's made in Minecraft and it's pretty cool but that's not the pointGrin).

OP posts:
HoboSexualOnslow · 22/06/2021 20:19

I know it's not the point but I'm kind if impressed by him!

BeatieBourke · 22/06/2021 20:19

Widdlin that is ver sensible and useful advice and exactly what I came here for, thank you.

OP posts:
BeatieBourke · 22/06/2021 20:20

Hobo I know, me too Hmm.

OP posts:
Deadleaf29 · 22/06/2021 20:21

I prefer related and immediate punishment, I’d leave the day out out of it. So stealing the sweets would mean no treat after dinner for several days. Sneaking the tablet in that way I’d remove it completely for at least a week and tell him if I ever caught him doing it again it would be a month.

There would also be a very long conversation about my serious disappointment in him lying/sneaking, the importance of telling the truth and what would happen if it happened again and I couldn’t trust him - so I’d threaten a baby monitor in his room so I could tell what he’s up to and no being unsupervised so he’d have to be in the kitchen where I could see him while I was making dinner.

juicey09 · 22/06/2021 20:23

I agree with Widdlin.

how long is he allowed on the tablet? My kids don't really have set screen limits and they all play on the tablets differently. My oldest is minecraft mad and he's really good on it, as long as homework/reading is done, he can play on it for a couple of hours after school. If we feel he's been on it too long, we ask him to turn it off and he doesn't mind.

But you're right that the deceit needs to be dealt with, it's very thought out and planned isn't it? If he naturally wakes at 5, what is it you expect him to do for 1.5 hours?

Screen time is such a personal thing and every family has different rules and feelings about it. It's a balancing act isn't it?

Deadleaf29 · 22/06/2021 20:25

And I completely agree with Widdlin about the gaming and time limit.

Confrontayshunme · 22/06/2021 20:26

There is a sort of normal stage where they learn what lying and morality is not subjective to the person between 4 and 7ish. We really struggled with my 6 year old lying, but kept reinforcing "our family is honest and we trust each other", and it did stop after a few months. But so frustrating when you feel like you have a "good" kid making bad choices for that period of time.

BeatieBourke · 22/06/2021 20:29

The sleep thing is a big issue. He has woken up at 5am for years. He is tired when he wakes up, and if he come into our bed will go back to sleep until 6.30/7. This was fine, except he started coming into our bed at 4, and 3, and midnight, and then we were all sleeping badly. So we have been trying to get him to sleep in his own bed at night, and play quietly in his room when he wakes up early. But then he started waking up at 4.15 and playing, so we tried to encourage him to put a story on to listen to (he has a Yoto player he can use himself) and get back into bed...its a muddle. A 5 Yr long sleep deprived muddle!

Even writing this makes me realise how ridiculous it sounds.

OP posts:
juicey09 · 22/06/2021 20:31

It doesn't sound ridiculous, your tired and frustrated! I get it. It's hard work.

And I don't have any useful advice on that front I'm afraid, wish I did

BeatieBourke · 22/06/2021 20:34

Juicy, your advice and general tone is super appreciated!

OP posts:
juicey09 · 22/06/2021 20:39

You're very welcome.

Perhaps once the tablet ban is finished, you could have a chat about it, come up with a plan together about how often and for how long he uses his tablet? He could even help make a timetable or something? Might encourage him to stick to the plan.

One of my kids wakes at 6 every day, he has a grow clock and is generally pretty good at staying in bed until the sun comes up at 0630 but it's only half an hour (and sometimes he sneaks out for a cuddle). Big difference between 5 and 6am though.

Clymene · 22/06/2021 20:40

Have you tried rewards rather than sanctions? So get him a growegg and tell him he has to stay in his room until 6am and for every day, he gets 10 minutes on the tablet.

And rather than 'you can have x because it's nearly time for dinner', you can have x and if you sit nicely at the table and help carry stuff to the sink, you can have Y after dinner'.

I think rewards work better for children than sanctions. They require a bit more effort though.

Is his room dark?

Mincepiesallyearround · 22/06/2021 20:41

I wouldn’t be too hard on him. It’s easy to get wound up about the sneaking and lying but what he is showing you is that he is 5, and he is too young to regulate his behaviour when sweets are available, and the tablet too. I’m not sure 5 yr olds even understand about lying the way we do. I would have punished it there and then eg an early bedtime for nicking sweets without asking and moved on quite quickly. Make sure to hide the tablet in a much better place and or put a pin on it that only you know!

CatsArePeople · 22/06/2021 20:43

He needs a later bedtime if he wakes up so early.
At the age of 5, maybe some books/stories/films about why lying and stealing is wrong.
As for tablet and other screens - try parental controls. Them being automatic is easier than having to take things off him personally.

DancesWithDaffodils · 22/06/2021 20:43

We have 3 rules on the early waking (after finding the oldest watching TV at 4am - tbf, we'd never told him he couldn't at that time).

  1. before 6am, you need to stay in bed and rest.
  2. after 6am, you can read/play quietly, but you need to stay in your room (bathroom excepted) and not distrub anyone else
  3. 7am can get up.

About 5 years old he asked for an alarm clock. We were Hmm about an early waker needing an alarm, but it has really helped, as he doesnt need to see the clock in the middle of the night. No alarm (7am) means cant get up. It also has a light setting that comes on at 6.30, and has helped at keeping his eyes closed until 6.30.

Seeline · 22/06/2021 20:44

Have you explained why you are restricting the things he likes and enjoys? I think children need to have a reason for parents being 'mean'!

dancealittleclosertome · 22/06/2021 20:48

@WiddlinDiddlin

If you reduce the availability of anything, you increase the value.

Can you play Minecraft usefully, satisfyingly for the short time he is allowed to play it?

What is the goal re getting up time - that he sleeps longer, you can't force someone to sleep more than they can sleep - or is it that he remains in his room quietly?

I agree the deviousness and deceit, stealing the sweets he knew he wasn't to have - that needs dealing with, but I think in some instances you are pushing him to be devious with unreasonable rules/goals here.

If you can't play Minecraft satisfyingly/usefully for 10 minutes - in the same way you cannot watch a half hour soap in 10 minutes - then you can't. Limiting his time just creates frustration.

What about a longer time allowance but fewer times a week - it appears he CAN limit himself to an hour and a half in the mornings because he has been doing that without you noticing for some time!

Whilst there need to be consequences, if you insist on rules that make no sense and just go further down the road of punishment, particularly with consequences that are some way ahead, and require good behaviour for a long time and then one slip up results in the whole lot having been effectively, a wasted effort.. you'll soon run out of consequences and have an even more frustrated child.

Agree with all of this. And I don't necessarily think punishments work. I think approaching everything with kindness works better, so he's clearly very bright, can you not explain that the reason you didn't want him to eat all the sweets before dinner was because dinner is better for him, so you didn't want him to not eat his dinner because he'd filled up on sweets first. Explain the link between bad teeth and sugar etc. It's because you love him. Otherwise there is a danger he will see you as someone who is not on his side.
NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 22/06/2021 20:52

Do you restrict sugar at home generally?

Melitza · 22/06/2021 20:54

I think your lad sounds amazing.
I know you have to enforce rules but remember when he's an adult and you look back on your parenting you will never think you were too soft.
You may however, think you were too hard.

As someone says immediate and relevant consequences but don't sweat the small stuff.

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