Not sure if I want to buy a house, anyone else decided not to?

[Drumstick38]

I earn minimum wage, though I am currently applying for higher paid roles.
I have zero debt apart from student loans which is good, and about £1700 in savings.
I can't see how I could ever afford a deposit, as well as all the associated fees. I'm in Greater Manchester and having to look in Bolton, Wigan, Rochdale etc. As everything else is much more expensive.

Aside from this, I think the responsibility of paying a mortgage would be too much for me. I've already lost money this week due to having Covid and having to isolate, I'd be too worried about losing my job or something and not being able to pay.

The repair and maintenance costs are a factor too of buying a house.

I like the flexibility of renting, I don't have any pets and I like that more responsibility falls on the landlord.

The thing that people seem concerned about is in retirement age, and whether people can afford to keep renting, but surely there must be solutions?

Anyone else in a similar situation?

I live in London. I do not want to move from London as I was born and raised here.

I rent - a very affordable rent which leaves me a good amount of money to play with. Owning wouldn't give me that. I work and earn a very reasonably wage.

I'm also disabled. If I own a place and become too disabled to work no-one is going to pay my mortgage for me, but benefits would pay my rent.

@ShadowsInTheDarkness

I response to posts about getting on the property ladder etc why is that important? I really struggle with this. We rent a 5 bed detached house with an acre of land. If we bought we would have to buy a starter home. Something small with limited outside space and gradually work our way up the ladder over the next few decades. Why do it that way and this emphasis on getting on the ladder when we can continue to rent our lovely house, while slowly saving up over the next 20 years and then go and buy an equally nice house.

Our in-laws sold a 4 bed semi which they had paid the mortgage off on and now rent. They are planning on moving down nearer to us when MIL retires and currently enjoy the flexibility of not being tied to a house sale in order to move. Their fear was that they would end up having to sell up to cover care home fees for themselves in older age or their parents so have used the money from the house sale wisely and invested the bulk of it for their retirement etc. They are very comfortable, certainly aren't struggling as their rent is affordable just the two of them.

Seeing as you’re in a rural area - unlikely to have massive increase in house price that outpace your savings + stable long term rental, it probably makes sense.

Despite everything said on here rent vs buy depends on personal circumstances. If you’re in an area with rising house prices + rent and rent eats up so much of your costs that you can’t save - it’s better to minimise the damage by trying to buy as quickly as possible.

I’m very much in the buy camp - but only because my target area is close to the city (where jobs are in my field are, and not London). If I managed to get a good, well-maintained property with stable rent that enables me to save for longer and properly prices won’t triple in several years then I’d be more comfortable renting for longer. As it stands we’re flooded with London escapees, so there’s a lot of competition and with WFH set to continue it’s unlikely to abate anytime soon.

Judgement depends on individual choice related to circumstances ofc 😂 if people are using ‘benefits’ as their backup plan then you can’t be surprised when people judge but otherwise it’s a personal decision and nobody else’s business ...

I've just looked up one of the properties that I used to rent
When I moved out the landlord offered it to me to buy for approx £50k
The approx price is now £200k to buy

So I assume that the rent has increased too over time

@FTEngineerM

If you own a house you’ll likely be paying tens if not hundreds of thousands in interest to the bank for borrowing the money so whilst it’s an ‘investment’ in reality it’s far more complex.

By the time someone has tallied up mortgage payments, repair costs which can be huge and are often unexpected , legal fees from purchasing and any mortgage fees it’s not actually a great deal.

If you want to rent, just rent, I don’t know why it’s such a hot topic at the minute. I enjoyed renting when I did, totally risk free, I just existed and didn’t worry about the little cracks appearing or the boiler losing pressure for the third time today or the radiator that doesn’t work or the damp gable end wall or the sewage spewing into our garden or party wall dispute. The list is fucking endless when you own the property.

Plus stamp duty from money you've already been taxed on and takes a really long time to save up again if you want to move.

Also @ChuckNoWorriesMyWay I didn’t mean you - if people become too disabled to work etc then it’s perfectly fine.
Was referring to arrangements for the age where people who have bought a house have paid off a house, but those who still rent are continuing to rent. If rents have risen and incomes drop benefits cant be counted on to maintain the same standard of living.

My parents bought their home many moons ago, own it outright but my dad passed away and my mum needs massive care package- plus the house needs a lot of work some ideally some essential as it was too much for them to keep up in latter years. Owning the house makes no odds really in terms of costs now as she could have rented a more suitable place instead of paying a lot for adaptations and ultimately it will be sold to see her through care homes I expect. I’m trying to say that mortgage free retirement is not without its own costs and problems.
Personally I dislike owning in my 50s as it’s too much hassle and energy required and the only downside to renting, imo, is possibilities of having to move unexpectedly and all deposits etc plus I have a car. Unless I win the lottery I plan to sell and rent again when mortgage is paid off, as responsibilities of house upkeep as i age is very unappealing to me.
I will say my parents always adored their home and my mum is happy she can at least be there, even if she literally can’t leave the front room. I think sometimes it is about feelings rather than costs.
It is a shame rental is considered just a stop gap and not managed better and respected more.

I have a cat - it’s not a car that makes renting difficult 🙈

Renting is a perfectly valid choice but your experience of renting is much more reliant on other people than if you buy.

The last landlord I had was fantastic, repairs done ASAP, always gave notice before visiting, gave us a card and bottle of wine before visiting, the apartment was beautiful and done to a higher standard than average for the area. But most of my other experiences were not so good, I lived in places that had just been painted when we viewed to hide the damp, places where the agency wrote the wrong date on our contract and then rang us to complain that rent was due on a completely different date, agents who let themselves in while we were asleep, a landlord who was trying to dodge tax by claiming we were only renting a room and living with them while they actually lived in another country, that one turned out to be damp as well. I never had the stress of the landlord selling the property and needing vacant possession but it has happened to friends of mine. I don't regret renting as I needed flexibility when I initially moved out and that last apartment was fantastic but I own now as I wanted more stability.

We choose to rent, we live in an area where houses rarely come up for sale and when they do they are 800k+. So I rent a lovely house on a country estate, I have a secure tenancy as the estate has been in the same ownership for about 400 years, the last tenant who lived in this house was here for 15 years, I expect we’ll continue renting for a good few years as dc don’t want to move. I do own other property, just not the one I live in.

The risk of long term renting is the financial it leaves you in retirement. Also if you have a family, it gives you the ability to leave assets to them. There all manner of pros and cons, as long as you’re aware of the risks of your choices, it’s really down to you.

I've been a very happy tenant for years, but have decided to buy my first flat last year.
Beyond securing my living situation for retirement, a big motivation for me was to be able to decorate and "own" my space as I wanted.
I've been loving it so far, although I've made some serious tradeoffs, I live in London and went from zone 1 to zone 3, and overall, I need to be way more deliberate with my money, I can't be as carefree as I was before, I need an emergency fund for the flat, and in case I'm out of employement.
I live a very frugal life and can't even consider trying keeping up with the joneses, my flat is now my priority.
This said, I really love that, gives me purpose, but for me, home ownership goes beyond just having a mortgage, it requires a certain mindset shift that I wasn't ready for a few years ago.

I've been in my flat for 9 months and I'm starting to relax money-wise, I've been able to save loads since I moved in, so now I'm not scared anymore something may need urgent repair.
Next step will be overpaying the mortgage but I'm not there yet, I first want to really make that place exactly as I want.

I live in one of the few places in the country where it’s cheaper to buy than rent (the NE), so it makes more sense to own a property. I think you’ve obviously had a positive experience of renting and your rent is very low but if you were living in a small, damp, shabby house with a rubbish landlord and paying extortionate rent then you’d probably think a lot differently and perhaps want more security. I know people from uni in these sort of situations who are desperate to buy.

[quote TheLastBeach]@Watchingyou2sleezes which lender? That is very interesting as it's very common in many other European countries to offer 20-30 years fixed so people know exactly what they'll pay until it is fully paid off. But I'd not heard of it here before on that scale. The longest that existed in the UK market when I last refinanced was a 10 year fix. It would be great if they are now matching the fixes to mortgage terms, it would make buying so much less risky for people.[/quote]
Habito

I'm also disabled. If I own a place and become too disabled to work no-one is going to pay my mortgage for me, but benefits would pay my rent

Actually you can get your interest payments made through Housing Benefits. Yes they pay this at the moment but I would be worried about things changing and the amount you can claim going down and rents staying the same or going up.

All of you who rent have you ever tried to rent a 4 bed house when you are in your 60s and don’t have a regular income?

Then you will realise it isn’t quite so flexible or easy.

Also has anyone looked at rent lately. We started looking earlier on the year and we thought for our budget we could get a 4 bed detached with a double garage.
Atm for our same budget we are now looking at 3 bed terraces and when we do enquire we are being turned down because we are too old.

Someone I know rented a room in a shared house for £60 per month in a very nice area of London.
He could have bought 3 flats (and he could have afforded 3 flats at the time) for the amount he has paid on rent even with stamp duty and mortgage interest added in.
And he continues to pay.

Why do you need four bedxhouse ?

"Someone I know rented a room in a shared house for £60 per month in a very nice area of London.
He could have bought 3 flats (and he could have afforded 3 flats at the time) for the amount he has paid on rent even with stamp duty and mortgage interest added in.
And he continues to pay."

I guess you mean 600?

That's 7200 a year.

Not sure how you calculate 600 a month = three flats in London? even over 20 years that s 144 k paid out which won't buy you anything in London except a parking space. Where do you get three flats from??

@TheLastBeach

overall true, but there are still places where even over 10-15 years you don't make much back after sale costs and ownership costs. The average gains are heavily weighted by the South East/London bubble. And you never know if/when you will have to move.

@Bythemillpond

I'm also disabled. If I own a place and become too disabled to work no-one is going to pay my mortgage for me, but benefits would pay my rent

Actually you can get your interest payments made through Housing Benefits. Yes they pay this at the moment but I would be worried about things changing and the amount you can claim going down and rents staying the same or going up.

All of you who rent have you ever tried to rent a 4 bed house when you are in your 60s and don’t have a regular income?

Then you will realise it isn’t quite so flexible or easy.

Also has anyone looked at rent lately. We started looking earlier on the year and we thought for our budget we could get a 4 bed detached with a double garage.
Atm for our same budget we are now looking at 3 bed terraces and when we do enquire we are being turned down because we are too old.

Someone I know rented a room in a shared house for £60 per month in a very nice area of London.
He could have bought 3 flats (and he could have afforded 3 flats at the time) for the amount he has paid on rent even with stamp duty and mortgage interest added in.
And he continues to pay.

Your strange flat calculation aside (as mentioned by pp) you’re right - in popular areas of the country there are several people competing for desirable properties. You search on Rightmove and see lots, go to view and then never get called back ...

Embracelife

We need 4 bedrooms because we need 4 bedrooms. I can’t see adult children sharing especially when boy/girl friends stay over.

No I do mean £60 per month and this was since the 70s so 40+ years and these particular flats were less than £10,000 at the time. I know because I used to live in the neighbourhood at that time which was quite grotty.

Also I am not allowed to view because you have to get through the questions first and we always fail on the question about being in f/t employment.

Tbh I would expect 4 adults in the house to be in ft employment, at least 2 of them, if I were renting property out, and the ft ones pass affordability.

I had issues when self employed so we had to pay in advance

@Bythemillpond

Embracelife

We need 4 bedrooms because we need 4 bedrooms. I can’t see adult children sharing especially when boy/girl friends stay over.

No I do mean £60 per month and this was since the 70s so 40+ years and these particular flats were less than £10,000 at the time. I know because I used to live in the neighbourhood at that time which was quite grotty.

So he paid 60 a month. How does 60 a month x xx years equate to three flats? 60 a month is 720 a year x 40 years is 28 k which is two or three flats but only if they still 10 k each...

Makes no sense.
Or do you mean if he got 10 k loan and paid 60 a month to pay it back?
Plus all the repairs and maintenance.
I don't understand the calculations at all sorry!

What about help to buy/shared ownership/social housing?

The problem with private renting is that you have no security,and can be moved on multiple times with minimal notice through no fault of your own. If you had a secure tenancy, or partial ownership, then you would have security.

Someone I know is trying to find a place to rent at the moment and there are so many people going for the same property, the rents are at least twice the price of any mortgage monthly and there are a real lack of any rented houses when they do come up they are extremely overpriced for the location and condition.

They can't find anywhere to live.
This person never wanted to own and have never even looked into it.
Some people live life for now and don't think too much about the future, unfortunately with property with the rate it's going up many people are being pushed out of areas because the increases in rents are just far too high.

Our mortgage is paid off. We put about half of what we used to pay into savings.

... Financially we are a lot better of than if we didn't bother and just kept on renting. Our home belongs to us, nobody can force us to move or increase monthly payments.

Definitely something to think about.

I am renting following a relationship breakdown and have only just reached the point where I am able to save anything towards a deposit. However, I can't save huge amounts and with 2 DC buying somewhere big enough is a long way off. I think the only reason buying would be good would be the security of not having to move but once the kids are grown up I don't think I'll care about that.

I'm just making sure my pension is good and will just carry on renting if needs be, life's too short to worry about it. A million things could happen between now and then.

There are pros and cons to both. I loved renting and the freedom/ flexibility it affords until I had a rotten landlord who failed to do any repairs and left us with no heating or hot water over winter, water leaks and unsafe gas appliances. Some agents were awful to deal with too and charged unnecessary fees annually for ‘admin’ for tenancy renewals and this cost went up year on year. I once worked with a family in who had been given notice to vacate 6 times over 2 years and we’re very distressed from having to move so many times and the upheaval of it ( no fault of their own, landlords just wanted property back for their own use or selling it, renovation works to re-market etc) I worked with so many people experiencing being made homeless through no fault of their own due to tenancies being terminated. So insecurity of tenure put me off renting long term ( and bad landlord / issues with agents) however get a good landlord who plans to rent out long term and it’s much better ( though plans can and do change, our nice long term landlords who lived abroad had to evict our lovely next door neighbours as they had to move back to UK due to health). would advise to consider insecurity risk as Assured Shorthold tenancies ( standard UK tenancies) after the initial 6 month period has expired landlord can serve 2 months notice to vacate at any time, without needing to cite a reason. Renting culture is better in Europe, much more widely accepted as secure long term housing as Assured (protected) tenancies are more the norm ( this is where a tenant can only be evicted on certain grounds , eg rent arrears or damage, so ‘good’ tenants are v secure). Rents are increasing generally but mortgages also cost ££. I agree with what others have said that it is your choice, but personally prefer owning and you gain an asset that increases in value and more security. Rents tend to keep going up but paying down a mortgage over time means monthly payments reduce over time. Also not having to deal with bad or unpredictable landlords, your home is your own and if something goes wrong yes it costs money but you can get it fixed without frustrating back and forths through an agent and the delays this often involves. The rental market is very competitive, especially for good properties and landlords can increase their rents whenever they want really (ours went up 3 times in 3 years).